VSA's Sonic Signature

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VSA's Sonic Signature

Postby JackD201 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:40 pm

QGuy asked me this question. Others have too although not as perfectly worded as the Q.

Here's my opinion as posted in another thread.

The Von Schweikert sonic signature is a bit tricky to pin down from the VR-1 on up the VSA Totem pole. It is difficult to describe in the usual audiophile language and make generalizations the way we often do with other makes. Yes the highs are smooth, the midrange sweet (too sweet according to jonathan Valin of TAS but what does he know :lol:) and the bass tight and deep but that isn't what makes them different.

It took for example myself and VD to listen to no less than 5 different VSA models to pin it down. (VR-1, VR-2, VR-4 Gen III HSE, VR-4 SR and DB-99)

What makes it difficult is their transparency to the source equipment. For example using a VR-1 with 2a3 vs. 300B or el84 vs. KT88 all amps we have on hand make them sound ALMOST like different speakers altogether. The same is the case with the VR-4SRs driven by Plinius, Levinson or BAT.

It is in this ALMOST that the sonic signature lies. To disect this means foregoing the usual his are like this, mids are like this, bass are like this kind of thing. One has to look into the presentation.

All VSA speakers play BIG. by this I mean that they energize the room very well. Soundstages are huge compared to most other brands and likewise the images are larger. The difference between models is refinment across the entire audible range and increases in clean distortion free extension on both extremes.

The differences between models are due to real world sacrifices that must be made in order to produce the speakers within marketable price points. For example The VR-5 uses teflon and oil V-Caps for the tweeters. The VR-4 SR uses Hovland musicaps. These 2 caps in a vr-5 alone cost more than a pair of VR-1s by a good $200. Using all V-Caps for a VR-5 would bring the price up to almost $50,000.

What we all noticed however is that between models the improvements come in equal measure as you go up provided you don't have a room with serious anomalies that have been left uncorrected.

for example in a scale of one to ten applied only within the VSA product lines

VR-1 highs 6 mids 6 bass 6
VR-2 highs 7.7 mids 7.7 bass 7.7
VR-4jr highs 8 mids 8 bass 8

etc....

The VSA Engineering team strives to make the spectrum equally good or equally great.

In other words: balanced. So there are other speakers in their price range that may give better highs or better mids or better bass (this last one I have yet to encounter :lol:) but will fall short in other areas.

VSA designs try to minimize these discrepancies within each design because they cause distractions. Maganda nga ang highs payat o boomy naman ang bass so you will always be nagged by the negative despite the abundance of positive attributes of your speaker.

Lastly, VSA produces speakers you can feel not just hear. This is a product of the patented crossover and over built in house designed motor structures used with ultra stiff ultra light domes cones and ribbons.

The crossover contributes because of the extremely wide clean off axis dispersion that will energize air all the way to the 8 corners of your room leading to a feeling of being immersed.

The motors because you need a lot of low distortion force to energize a space this way.

You may not be able to feel the earth move with the smaller models but you will feel the air move. ;)

So the VSA Sonic signature is BIG, BALANCED and TEXTURED.
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Postby ichabod » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:08 pm

I agree wholeheartedly that what sounds good feels good! Hence, any good sounding speaker may just be quite as forgiving a speaker with ancilliaries as well. Might it be possible to see a frequency response plot on any of the VR speakers? Anything perhaps like the famous or infamous "bbc dip?" Or will it be earth "flat" all throughout? Or some rolling-off on both extremes which accordingly will enable the speakers to reproduce that concert hall like "warm curve?" Thanks again.
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Postby JackD201 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:55 pm

I'll ask Albert for some James. None were sent to us. I suspect however that VSA speakers measure predominantly flat except for +/- midband variations of only 1dB stated in the spec sheets aka a -1dB correction or "dip" as you put it designed by Albert into the customized aerogel drivers (not a permanent dip or peak in the crossover) when signal demands on the motor structure drop impedance.

The idea is to allow the user the widest amount of latitude or the opportunity to select associated equipment so as to tailor the sound of the system to his personal biases by making the loudspeakers less of a variable. Hence, the chameleon like characteristics.

Other firms do the opposite by imposing a distinct house sound that is less affected by associated equipment. Hence the forgiving nature. BBC speakers albeit not what I'd call forgiving or apologist speakers but rather slightly tolerant speakers lean towards this. Wether or not it was an intention at the design stage I would not venture to guess. I've heard spendors sound terrific with mass market receivers. A VR-1 to the detriment of our sales do not. The VSM on wall series however which we have yet to import are designed for mass market gear and are supposedly much more forgiving and do possess kind dips and roll off engineered into the crossovers themselves.

As for roll off on the free space models in the VSA and Premium Lines. It is gentle into the extremeties. VR-1s to 4 Jrs roll off past 25khz in the highs and roll off completely while still in the audible range. The premium models roll off below 20 Hz the VR-4 SR rolling off first with 20Hz +/-3dB while the VR-11 XTC rolls off 10Hz +/-3dB.

Although the SR's tweeters can reach 40kHz it is rolled off at 25kHz to remove potential distortions related to heat and the limitations of the x-over components at its price point. The VR-5s are allowed to reach 70kHz distortion free at +/- 4dB.

Personally i approve of the use of roll off because it, in general, commits the sin of omission by allowing operation of drivers in a more optimal range.*

Today almost all designers strive to keep the drivers working in their optimal range I guess the same way we don't drive toyota corollas 200kph down hill even if it is possible.







* Unfortunately this is not an absolute guarantee. I owned a pair of speakers that rolled of at 16kHz but could still sound whitish do to the transducers very design.
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Postby ichabod » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:25 am

Thank you for the above explanation, and your being forthright as well.

I can hear these speakers to be flat across the midband to its extreme useable range that's necessary. In comparo, this won't sound like say the spendor S 3/5 on the upper extreme limits since they roll off earlier to achieve what you call that "in-house" sig. And that "warm curve" making these speakers more tolerant of mid level gear. I owned an S3/5 to know enough of its virtues. It was conceived to resurrect the sorely missed LS 3/5A. But did not sound like it at all. The sonics of the Rogers Studio 3 (produced around 1991-92) did sound much like the LS than this johnny come lately model from spendor.

The VRs would more likely be the Harbeth 30s or the LS 3/5A in response. Not the Harbeth 7es compact since there's a shallow or slight dip (2 dB I think is noticeable) in the 2-6 kHz region which according to Dr. Greene of TAS is not exactly the way he wants it. But he says it's personal, and justifies it by going back to the subject of the review which is all about harbeth's being a less colored speaker due to its research into cone materials and their subsequent use of "radial" cones.

Thanks again.
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Postby qguy » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:49 am

thanks Jack for the excellent response - i asked coz I noticed that VR 1 uses a different drivers (tweeters), as opposed to the B&W 80X series where the difference lies in the woofers alone (tama nga ba ???, same tweets / mids for 801 to 802, 803....)
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Postby JackD201 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:13 am

Hi qguy, The VSA line in which the VR-1s belong use the same tweeters and woofer. The models in this line are the VR-1, VR-2, VR-4jr and their HT brethren the LCR-15 and the TS-150. The premium line uses Scanspeak Dual Ring Radiators, Audax Aerogel midranges and SEAS aluminum or magnesium woofers,

With B&W 800 series the tweeters are either the standard or D versions (Diamond) these are mached with either the standard mid-woofer ( 805,804) or the FST midrange drivers (803,802,801,800 signature). The woofer compliment differs in size and number too.
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Postby JackD201 » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:17 pm

Gizmos are cool. Impressive Tech Specs are cool. Empirical Testing is cool.

Nothing beats the human ear.

VSA prides itself in the application of the latest technology in the areas of acoustics, materials and electronics. Yet as other companies have invested heavily on test equipment and purpose built evaluation facilities just as VSA has. None to my knowledge have ever invested in an in-house recording facility whose sole purpose is to voice the products versus LIVE instruments and human voice.

Von Schweikert voices vs. LIVE

It is in this facility that panels of musicians and music industry professionals as well as a few afficionados of high esteem give inputs to the design teams whose job is to recreate the microphone's line feed on the loudspeaker end.

The saying "There ain't nuthin like the real thing" has never been more true.
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