REINTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Mang Rod's audio creations...

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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby dieya! » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:35 pm

I don't know nothing about specs. :D So I use my ears intead. :clap:
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby pigdog » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:51 am

ok boys lets be fair! specs are important and so does listening, it works both ways. what was being said in the last posts is to be more objective. specs serves as a guide it is not the end all be all, listening has its flaws specially to the uninitiated, but if you are one of those who can and has the ability to pass judgment based on listening, then that is very good. thats why i tend to take the middle road, also knowing what to look for is important, when i audition any new equipments, i have a certain set parameters that is seen in numbers along with the sonic quality. hope this clears the air and open the forums to real discussions of the merits and weaknesses of each audio items that were discussed here.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby TonyC » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:09 pm

Would love to know how this TVC compares to the basic Promitheus TVC. :D :D
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby asoka » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:37 pm

pigdog wrote:ok boys lets be fair! specs are important and so does listening, it works both ways. what was being said in the last posts is to be more objective. specs serves as a guide it is not the end all be all, listening has its flaws specially to the uninitiated, but if you are one of those who can and has the ability to pass judgment based on listening, then that is very good. thats why i tend to take the middle road, also knowing what to look for is important, when i audition any new equipments, i have a certain set parameters that is seen in numbers along with the sonic quality. hope this clears the air and open the forums to real discussions of the merits and weaknesses of each audio items that were discussed here.


Hey, Boy!

You are damn right to say that specs and listening are both important. But there's a very big but here and the big but here depends on who is talking or asking it. If he is a pure listener or a music lover, why would he impede or put a breach to his momentous listening engagement if he already got it? Do you expect him to rouse from his sweet spot and yells " where's the gaddamm spe-e-e-c-s!". Ridiculous.

But it's a different ball game if it's ArnoldC who's asking. We all knew him, right? Of course MR group won't give the specs to him on a siver platter. Kailangan dumugo siya para magkaroon siya ng specs ni MR. Paano?

He'll do a Pharisee act by going to Conchu undetected by his circle of friends and patrons(that includes you, I suppose) and offer to buy from MR a unit. There you go. Dumugo ang pride...atleast may specs na siya at unit mismo. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

PS. Maawa naman kayo ni ArnoldC, wag niyo nang isali ang mga uninitiated dito sa usapan natin. Nasa WS tayong lahat. Example na lang sino ang makaka-argue ninyo dito kundi mga dumadaming believers at satisfied customers ni MR, gaya nina skee, dimfer, kabubi, mandym, carlos miguel, novblue, esaudio(tatalikuran na yata ang lawyering to patronize MR), balita ko pati yung kahangahangang cogressman JackD, audiostar, et al. Sino ngayon ang naiwan on your side, e di yung tinatawag niyong uninitiated (logic lang bro, wag magalit kung kala nyo tinamaan kayo). Sabi ni Skarlet...Skavavavoom! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Grounded Bumblebees

Postby asoka » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:44 pm

Squirrelnutzipper wrote:Advocates of listening only without knowing specs and advocates of comparing specs only are equally right and wrong. Consider the following anecdote about the bumblebee that should not fly.

Not too long ago, aerodynamics appled to a bumblebee determined that the bumblebee should not fly, but it does! Over time, the insect was studied further and formulae refined. What was ultimately determined was that the nature of the bumblebee's wing motion was not fully understood and that when analyzed fully, revealed that theoretically, and in reality, the bumblebee could fly. What has this to do with the issue at hand?

There is a lot that can and is measured in audio that relates to sound quality. Yet, there is much that is not understood. Specifications alone do not solely measure SQ for this reason. Rather, certain aspects of audio components are well understood, as is the impact on sound quality. Among these important considerations are impedance matching between components and gain, for example. Specs are important. Simplistically, would you blindly buy an amp not checking whether it needs 120 or 230 volts? Of course not. On the other hand, it is not a great idea to buy an amp without listening to it in your system and listening environment.

So, a middle ground is merited, where specs are compared AND listening against a well known reference is experienced. Anything less is likely to result in a less than optimal purchase.


goooh awaay!!! bring this somewhere else...
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby audiostar » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:30 pm

Hi guys, let's keep the discussion sane, informative and friendly - mods

With due respect, Mang Rod is a nice guy who probably needs a lot of support. He makes excellent audio products by harnessing his long years of experience. He listens to advice, this I can personally attest. He made me audition his compactron for weeks in exchange for giving him my honest impressions. I found his phonoamp lacking in punch and thru brader Buboy, I frankly said so. I was surprised to hear a better-sounding compactron during a session at lovejbl's place. In fact so impressed was Paul (Mamimili) that he immediately ordered one. I also did.

The point I want to put across is that Mang Rod cannot rely on buyers like me and Paul forever. There are those who would want to know what stuff those parts inside the hood are made of and rightly so. We wouldn't buy a medicine to cure certain illness if we do not know its chemical composition, side effects, among others. Specs are and should be a beacon for a thoughtful purchase of an audio product. They tell us in a nutshell what a certain equipment is capable of doing. Intelligent buyers rely on them big time. High-end hi-fi equipment must meet a certain level of sophistication even before they are subjected to critical, albeit subjective assessments.

These are some of the things I look for: freq. response, damping factor, sensitivity. If Filipino audio equipment builders want to be at par with the world’s best, they have to claim in quantifiable terms what their products can offer; otherwise they’ll just be among hundreds of copycats.

I have so much respect for Mang Rod and other Filipino DIYers and I hope they take this gobbledygook, coming from a non-expert, as an encouragement to do better. I'm sure Mang Rod will be more than happy to take his creations to higher levels and I'm willing, in my limited capacity, to help him to do just that.

Peace to all :)
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby skeesix » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:32 pm

audiostar wrote:Hi guys, let's keep the discussion sane, informative and friendly - mods

With due respect, Mang Rod is a nice guy who probably needs a lot of support. He makes excellent audio products by harnessing his long years of experience. He listens to advice, this I can personally attest. He made me audition his compactron for weeks in exchange for giving him my honest impressions. I found his phonoamp lacking in punch and thru brader Buboy, I frankly said so. I was surprised to hear a better-sounding compactron during a session at lovejbl's place. In fact so impressed was Paul (Mamimili) that he immediately ordered one. I also did.

The point I want to put across is that Mang Rod cannot rely on buyers like me and Paul forever. There are those who would want to know what stuff those parts inside the hood are made of and rightly so. We wouldn't buy a medicine to cure certain illness if we do not know its chemical composition, side effects, among others. Specs are and should be a beacon for a thoughtful purchase of an audio product. They tell us in a nutshell what a certain equipment is capable of doing. Intelligent buyers rely on them big time. High-end hi-fi equipment must meet a certain level of sophistication even before they are subjected to critical, albeit subjective assessments.

These are some of the things I look for: freq. response, damping factor, sensitivity. If Filipino audio equipment builders want to be at par with the world’s best, they have to claim in quantifiable terms what their products can offer; otherwise they’ll just be among hundreds of copycats.

I have so much respect for Mang Rod and other Filipino DIYers and I hope they take this gobbledygook, coming from a non-expert, as an encouragement to do better. I'm sure Mang Rod will be more than happy to take his creations to higher levels and I'm willing, in my limited capacity, to help him to do just that.

Peace to all :)


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Happy Easter!
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby asoka » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:19 pm

[quote="audiostar"]Hi guys, let's keep the discussion sane, informative and friendly - modsquote]

Yes Sir! Actually pinapasaya lang yung friendly discussion. :lol: :lol: :lol: No cause for alam. :) :) :) Gusto ko ring ipaabot kay ka-myembrong si Squirrelnutzipper na yung go away comment ko ay expression lang yun oppossite sa kanyang parallelism on the bumble bee/potato salad/110/220volts etc. for the topic at hand. I, myself (not to include the sentiment of the whole WS members) don't like to hear it thus i said go away...And bring it somewhere else - advice ko naman para dalhin niya yung argument sa mga uninitiated ni mr. pigdog (joke). :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sir, maganda yung advice mo kay Mang Rod. It is very well said and commendable. It is true that every purchase should be accompanied by a literature bearing the basic specifications the user needed. But this is a prerequisite only in a full marketing management effort over a product of the same category or the likes. We all knew this. But let us face it, that at this stage all outputs coming out of MR's hand are yet in their prototypical stage, or in a more advance thought, - owing to Patrick's frenzy over MR's creations, market testing stage. It is therefore imperative to MR to give out specifications, and a choice for the pre-selling customer to make, at this stage. Can't they not be at peace with that?

Why are some sectors egg him for these specificatons at this point when all these specifications are already embodied in every MR creation's performance?

Peace! :)
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby juric » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:27 pm

hehehe! HAPPY EASTER :)
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby pigdog » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:44 pm

dear Asoka,
i dont think you know me well enough to make these comments whether it is meant to be funny or otherwise. so i am going to make myself very clear here. I am not here to pick on MR. I have had the pleasure of meeting MR last feb and i think MR is a good man,with very good ideas. i asked because i would like to hear some facts and an objective comment free from fanfare and cheerleading, considering i dont live in this country, i dont have the advantage of visiting MR whenever a new product is introduced to the market. and neither do i have the opportunity to listen to his product. one has to consider me as a potential buyer as i placed a huge support to local Diyers, as i have mentioned in my previous thread, i would like to be able to understand the product well enough, asking for a specs helps, i am not in the business of copying as i am not a DIYER nor can i even do a proper solder! but asking for a specs on certain product helps me set up some baseline parameters then i follow it up with plenty of serious listening. this is how i make descisions. i read SNZs comment and i think it is well within the topic being discuss here. remember, if we asked questions, it is because the product warrants our attention, and that is a good thing for MR, am i right? and if we or anyone makes a critique, then look at it as a good thing, this helps improve the product and further improves MR's reputation. the worst thing for MR is to have his work be left unnoticed. and please remember this is a FORUM, everyone is entittled to one's opinions and questions and this applies even to arnold considering his post is rather dated already, and he is not even involved in the current discussion! this is a site that promotes the exchange of ideas, and lest we forget, we are in the WWW

hope this is clear and my apologies for being straightforward

happy easter!

asoka wrote:
audiostar wrote:Hi guys, let's keep the discussion sane, informative and friendly - modsquote]

Yes Sir! Actually pinapasaya lang yung friendly discussion. :lol: :lol: :lol: No cause for alam. :) :) :) Gusto ko ring ipaabot kay ka-myembrong si Squirrelnutzipper na yung go away comment ko ay expression lang yun oppossite sa kanyang parallelism on the bumble bee/potato salad/110/220volts etc. for the topic at hand. I, myself (not to include the sentiment of the whole WS members) don't like to hear it thus i said go away...And bring it somewhere else - advice ko naman para dalhin niya yung argument sa mga uninitiated ni mr. pigdog (joke). :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sir, maganda yung advice mo kay Mang Rod. It is very well said and commendable. It is true that every purchase should be accompanied by a literature bearing the basic specifications the user needed. But this is a prerequisite only in a full marketing management effort over a product of the same category or the likes. We all knew this. But let us face it, that at this stage all outputs coming out of MR's hand are yet in their prototypical stage, or in a more advance thought, - owing to Patrick's frenzy over MR's creations, market testing stage. It is therefore imperative to MR to give out specifications, and a choice for the pre-selling customer to make, at this stage. Can't they not be at peace with that?

Why are some sectors egg him for these specificatons at this point when all these specifications are already embodied in every MR creation's performance?

Peace! :)
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby asoka » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:19 am

[quote="pigdog"]dear Asoka,
i dont think you know me well enough to make these comments whether it is meant to be funny or otherwise. so i am going to make myself very clear here. I am not here to pick on MR. I have had the pleasure of meeting MR last feb and i think MR is a good man,with very good ideas. i asked because i would like to hear some facts and an objective comment free from fanfare and cheerleading, considering i dont live in this country, i dont have the advantage of visiting MR whenever a new product is introduced to the market. and neither do i have the opportunity to listen to his product. one has to consider me as a potential buyer as i placed a huge support to local Diyers, as i have mentioned in my previous thread, i would like to be able to understand the product well enough, asking for a specs helps, i am not in the business of copying as i am not a DIYER nor can i even do a proper solder! but asking for a specs on certain product helps me set up some baseline parameters then i follow it up with plenty of serious listening. this is how i make descisions. i read SNZs comment and i think it is well within the topic being discuss here. remember, if we asked questions, it is because the product warrants our attention, and that is a good thing for MR, am i right? and if we or anyone makes a critique, then look at it as a good thing, this helps improve the product and further improves MR's reputation. the worst thing for MR is to have his work be left unnoticed. and please remember this is a FORUM, everyone is entittled to one's opinions and questions and this applies even to arnold considering his post is rather dated already, and he is not even involved in the current discussion! this is a site that promotes the exchange of ideas, and lest we forget, we are in the WWW

hope this is clear and my apologies for being straightforward

happy easter!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoowwoooww! Mr. Pigdog, have you ever seen this easter a balon-eh?

You are singing a different tune now. Go back and reevaluate your post replies here and on the compactron and you will see what I mean, eh. There is a consistent pattern of resistance to MR's ingenuity which is read through out the contents of your posts. It is not what you are insinuating here that you want to learn more about MR's work so you may complement it with possible patronage? You were even, with some degree of insistense, telling Mang Rod what you know about what you know(on circuitry)

Now, do you see a big balon, eh?

With apology too for making a straightforward commentary.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby Superman » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:32 am

Guys, sorry to interrupt - let's cool down a little, Thanks and Regards! :angel:
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby kabubi » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:30 am

I guess that you can categorize the debate on whether specs are important or not in th same league as the contentious and very passionate arguments such as SS v/s Tubes, CD v/s Vinyl, Belt drive v/s Idler Drive, Active v/s Passive…

As far as amps, pre-amps, speakers, TVCs etc are concerned, I really do not give a hoot about them “specs” simply because I do not have the intellectual capacity to grasp their significance and implications. Although much of the data will forever remain greek to me, at least I realize that there are 2 things that are virtually impossible to refute:

1. The best way to evaluate a product is to audition, audition, audition and
2. It is the music that really matters

So, no matter what the numbers and the symbols that accompany the gadget are, they really don’t mean squat when you actually test the item. Actual experience has taught many of us that after a listening session, there have been many promising thigamajigs with great specs that have fallen short of their promise and there are those that may not have seemed promising at first which have exceeded our wildest expectations.

For me, amps prep-amps, speakers TVCs are like people. Some have impressive credentials and all those letters, symbols and titles that they adjunct to their names --- “specs” if you will --- but sadly fall short of our expectations because of what we hear out of them. But then again, there are those fellows who are obscure, ordinary and self-effacing but proved more of a pleasure to deal with and definitely more respectable while we are associated with them.

And in the end, the WS gurus and many of the plebeians say, it is the music that really matters above everything else, and I believe that includes “specs”.

Having said that, may I address the issues raised by Atty Dana, Squirrelnutzipper to you non-believers in specs:

It is not true that the question of specs of Rod’s TVC was not answered. If you had taken the time to search the related threads/posts and read the various forums, you would have come across this satisfactory reply of Tony (which had loooooooong been given) to questions re the specs akin to Mang Rod’s TVC:

TonyC wrote:Comparing the innards to the promitheus it seems, from a newbie's point of view, that the MRTVC is similar to the promitheus. Kindly see Promitheus photo:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e ... tvc_se.htm

Hope we see results soon...congrats to Mang Rod.


If there is anyone who can make an expert assessment in this regard, it would be good old Tony.

Reluctant as I would like to say it, but the reason why Mang Rod is unable to share the specs some clamor for is that he could not afford to purchase the expensive instruments to measure the specs that some of you cannot live without. All that he has is a Sanwa meter, an analog device, for crying out loud. It is not the easiest thing to admit, specially for folks with very modest means mind you, considering that Filipinos have the value of “hiya” (“sense of shame”). For anyone to insist that he should have long purchased these instruments would be downright condescending.

I confess that I am the schmoe that christened Mang Rod’s compactron phono pre amp the “tomato”. I called it so because the compactron tube resembles a small tomato. I beg your indulgence if I cannot satisfy the whims of others for the specs or to give a more scientific evaluation of the phono-pre’s attributes because, as I have said earlier, I am technically challenged for such a task. Honestly, I do not know what “topology” is. Is it the study of the earth’s surface? I also wonder at what “attenuation” means. Is it the ability of a soldier to stand rigid? I do not even know what a “squirrelnutzipper” is, either, if you will ask me. Is it a clothing device to cover the testicles of a rodent? If one will accuse me of being ignorant or apathetic about all this, all I can say is that I don’t know and I don’t care. In the end, it is how the “Tomato” will sound which matters most.

And so I describe my experiences with this wondrous MR creation more along metaphoric lines such as vitamins, minerals, healthy, good-for-you. ESaudio and i have a good chuckle when we refer to the 6c33c-b amp of Mang Rod as a "vampire". Is this such a bad idea considering my limited knowledge in things technical? More importantly, I do so because I want to have fun at it. Undeniably, I believe that this is what this hobby is all about: having fun and that to take it too seriously will only make me miserable.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby dimfer » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:19 am

naiyak ako ;( . so, you will be getting the latest iteration of this "Todo Volume Control".
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby vintage_dog » Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:12 am

asoka wrote:...
But it's a different ball game if it's ArnoldC who's asking. We all knew him, right? Of course MR group won't give the specs to him on a siver platter. Kailangan dumugo siya para magkaroon siya ng specs ni MR. Paano?

He'll do a Pharisee act by going to Conchu undetected by his circle of friends and patrons(that includes you, I suppose) and offer to buy from MR a unit. There you go. Dumugo ang pride...atleast may specs na siya at unit mismo. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

PS. Maawa naman kayo ni ArnoldC, wag niyo nang isali ang mga uninitiated dito sa usapan natin. Nasa WS tayong lahat. Example na lang sino ang makaka-argue ninyo dito kundi mga dumadaming believers at satisfied customers ni MR, gaya nina skee, dimfer, kabubi, mandym, carlos miguel, novblue, esaudio(tatalikuran na yata ang lawyering to patronize MR), balita ko pati yung kahangahangang cogressman JackD, audiostar, et al. Sino ngayon ang naiwan on your side, e di yung tinatawag niyong uninitiated (logic lang bro, wag magalit kung kala nyo tinamaan kayo). Sabi ni Skarlet...Skavavavoom! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



asoka, can you please send me a PM explaining what is the point you are making and what this is all about.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby pigdog » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:05 am

greetings kabubi
i appreciated your response and it is a good one, even if we belong to different side of the argument it is always refreshing to hear a good and well written comment, this is what i expect from our fellow members. may your post be an example of a good exchange of ideas and opinion. it is a shame i was not able to see you during this short visit, but as always it is always good to hear from you ! in the meantime, there is nothing wrong with whether or not one reads the specs , i for one cannot say i can fully understand all the info, but i do know and understand some of the figures and i further reinforce it with plenty of listening, the point here is some of us prefers to listen, some preferred to read specs and some take the middle way. and i respect that and i do hoped some of the other members will respect my own opinion now as for the other accusations and innuendos about my thoughts, well this is totally uncalled for, since i have never had the priviledge of being able to listen to Mang Rod's work in detail, i am not qualified to make any comments, and if one were to look at my previous posts, i never made any comments negative or otherwise other than asking for details. somehow it is sad that if anyone wishes to ask questions post or post a comment, one gets a negative response.
ctr

kabubi wrote:I guess that you can categorize the debate on whether specs are important or not in th same league as the contentious and very passionate arguments such as SS v/s Tubes, CD v/s Vinyl, Belt drive v/s Idler Drive, Active v/s Passive…

As far as amps, pre-amps, speakers, TVCs etc are concerned, I really do not give a hoot about them “specs” simply because I do not have the intellectual capacity to grasp their significance and implications. Although much of the data will forever remain greek to me, at least I realize that there are 2 things that are virtually impossible to refute:

1. The best way to evaluate a product is to audition, audition, audition and
2. It is the music that really matters

So, no matter what the numbers and the symbols that accompany the gadget are, they really don’t mean squat when you actually test the item. Actual experience has taught many of us that after a listening session, there have been many promising thigamajigs with great specs that have fallen short of their promise and there are those that may not have seemed promising at first which have exceeded our wildest expectations.

For me, amps prep-amps, speakers TVCs are like people. Some have impressive credentials and all those letters, symbols and titles that they adjunct to their names --- “specs” if you will --- but sadly fall short of our expectations because of what we hear out of them. But then again, there are those fellows who are obscure, ordinary and self-effacing but proved more of a pleasure to deal with and definitely more respectable while we are associated with them.

And in the end, the WS gurus and many of the plebeians say, it is the music that really matters above everything else, and I believe that includes “specs”.

Having said that, may I address the issues raised by Atty Dana, Squirrelnutzipper to you non-believers in specs:

It is not true that the question of specs of Rod’s TVC was not answered. If you had taken the time to search the related threads/posts and read the various forums, you would have come across this satisfactory reply of Tony (which had loooooooong been given) to questions re the specs akin to Mang Rod’s TVC:

TonyC wrote:Comparing the innards to the promitheus it seems, from a newbie's point of view, that the MRTVC is similar to the promitheus. Kindly see Promitheus photo:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e ... tvc_se.htm

Hope we see results soon...congrats to Mang Rod.


If there is anyone who can make an expert assessment in this regard, it would be good old Tony.

Reluctant as I would like to say it, but the reason why Mang Rod is unable to share the specs some clamor for is that he could not afford to purchase the expensive instruments to measure the specs that some of you cannot live without. All that he has is a Sanwa meter, an analog device, for crying out loud. It is not the easiest thing to admit, specially for folks with very modest means mind you, considering that Filipinos have the value of “hiya” (“sense of shame”). For anyone to insist that he should have long purchased these instruments would be downright condescending.

I confess that I am the schmoe that christened Mang Rod’s compactron phono pre amp the “tomato”. I called it so because the compactron tube resembles a small tomato. I beg your indulgence if I cannot satisfy the whims of others for the specs or to give a more scientific evaluation of the phono-pre’s attributes because, as I have said earlier, I am technically challenged for such a task. Honestly, I do not know what “topology” is. Is it the study of the earth’s surface? I also wonder at what “attenuation” means. Is it the ability of a soldier to stand rigid? I do not even know what a “squirrelnutzipper” is, either, if you will ask me. Is it a clothing device to cover the testicles of a rodent? If one will accuse me of being ignorant or apathetic about all this, all I can say is that I don’t know and I don’t care. In the end, it is how the “Tomato” will sound which matters most.

And so I describe my experiences with this wondrous MR creation more along metaphoric lines such as vitamins, minerals, healthy, good-for-you. ESaudio and i have a good chuckle when we refer to the 6c33c-b amp of Mang Rod as a "vampire". Is this such a bad idea considering my limited knowledge in things technical? More importantly, I do so because I want to have fun at it. Undeniably, I believe that this is what this hobby is all about: having fun and that to take it too seriously will only make me miserable.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby dannyb » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:42 am

kabubi wrote:I guess that you can categorize the debate on whether specs are important or not in th same league as the contentious and very passionate arguments such as SS v/s Tubes, CD v/s Vinyl, Belt drive v/s Idler Drive, Active v/s Passive…

As far as amps, pre-amps, speakers, TVCs etc are concerned, I really do not give a hoot about them “specs” simply because I do not have the intellectual capacity to grasp their significance and implications. Although much of the data will forever remain greek to me, at least I realize that there are 2 things that are virtually impossible to refute:

1. The best way to evaluate a product is to audition, audition, audition and
2. It is the music that really matters

So, no matter what the numbers and the symbols that accompany the gadget are, they really don’t mean squat when you actually test the item. Actual experience has taught many of us that after a listening session, there have been many promising thigamajigs with great specs that have fallen short of their promise and there are those that may not have seemed promising at first which have exceeded our wildest expectations.

For me, amps prep-amps, speakers TVCs are like people. Some have impressive credentials and all those letters, symbols and titles that they adjunct to their names --- “specs” if you will --- but sadly fall short of our expectations because of what we hear out of them. But then again, there are those fellows who are obscure, ordinary and self-effacing but proved more of a pleasure to deal with and definitely more respectable while we are associated with them.

And in the end, the WS gurus and many of the plebeians say, it is the music that really matters above everything else, and I believe that includes “specs”.

Having said that, may I address the issues raised by Atty Dana, Squirrelnutzipper to you non-believers in specs:

It is not true that the question of specs of Rod’s TVC was not answered. If you had taken the time to search the related threads/posts and read the various forums, you would have come across this satisfactory reply of Tony (which had loooooooong been given) to questions re the specs akin to Mang Rod’s TVC:

TonyC wrote:Comparing the innards to the promitheus it seems, from a newbie's point of view, that the MRTVC is similar to the promitheus. Kindly see Promitheus photo:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e ... tvc_se.htm

Hope we see results soon...congrats to Mang Rod.


If there is anyone who can make an expert assessment in this regard, it would be good old Tony.

Reluctant as I would like to say it, but the reason why Mang Rod is unable to share the specs some clamor for is that he could not afford to purchase the expensive instruments to measure the specs that some of you cannot live without. All that he has is a Sanwa meter, an analog device, for crying out loud. It is not the easiest thing to admit, specially for folks with very modest means mind you, considering that Filipinos have the value of “hiya” (“sense of shame”). For anyone to insist that he should have long purchased these instruments would be downright condescending.

I confess that I am the schmoe that christened Mang Rod’s compactron phono pre amp the “tomato”. I called it so because the compactron tube resembles a small tomato. I beg your indulgence if I cannot satisfy the whims of others for the specs or to give a more scientific evaluation of the phono-pre’s attributes because, as I have said earlier, I am technically challenged for such a task. Honestly, I do not know what “topology” is. Is it the study of the earth’s surface? I also wonder at what “attenuation” means. Is it the ability of a soldier to stand rigid? I do not even know what a “squirrelnutzipper” is, either, if you will ask me. Is it a clothing device to cover the testicles of a rodent? If one will accuse me of being ignorant or apathetic about all this, all I can say is that I don’t know and I don’t care. In the end, it is how the “Tomato” will sound which matters most.

And so I describe my experiences with this wondrous MR creation more along metaphoric lines such as vitamins, minerals, healthy, good-for-you. ESaudio and i have a good chuckle when we refer to the 6c33c-b amp of Mang Rod as a "vampire". Is this such a bad idea considering my limited knowledge in things technical? More importantly, I do so because I want to have fun at it. Undeniably, I believe that this is what this hobby is all about: having fun and that to take it too seriously will only make me miserable.

kabubi this has got to be your best post ever!!!

well written & every point well made!!!

as for my contribution to this discussion/argument, i beleive in both specs & listening which is to say both are definitely important

having said that lets take the work of the great instrument maker stradivarius, he created many musical instruments which have stood the test of time & now sell for millions of dollars & are among the most coveted instruments in existence, this all done without the benefit of meaurements & specs aside from actual listening

would i personally buy one of mang rods creations, well i'd like to see more specs before parting with my hard earned cash but having heard mang rods creations although briefly i'd definitely say there is a huge potential in his work some of them mature products that can go head to head with the big name brands

in a perfect world we would see pinoy talents like mang rod, hypertriode, mandym, joe3rp, etc have access to all the state of the art measuring facilities akin to canadas CRC laboratories, but sadly our world is far from perfect & being 3rd world class has it downside

so will mang rods creations turn out to be true collectors items & make a huge windfall for their present owners, only time will tell :)
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby camotecue » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:50 am

pigdog,

i love reading your posts (not limited to this topic). hope this misunderstanding among posters will not prevent you from joining future discussions.

larry
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby vintage_dog » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:04 pm

danny, you captured my thoughts as well on this specs/subjective "debate"...thanks.

as most still remember, WS was/is a big proponent of DIY or locally-made audio gear. look into the history of WS and you'll see how WS supported DIYers either through exposure, marketing or with actual capital...

specs and actual listening are both important. when we were pushing for the Tono preamp to be marketed abroad (via VTV in USA), a panel listened to it and liked it. but before they ordered, they insisted we give them standard specs...(they did not order until we gave them those specs).

if we expect pinoy products to compete globally, let's recognize that some dealers/consumers want to see some specs. frankly, i have not seen any audio gear commercially available that does not have some kind of specs published. nor have i seen any product that just says "sounds good, trust us" in the brochure...well maybe there is one...
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby asoka » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:27 pm

vintage_dog wrote:asoka, can you please send me a PM explaining what is the point you are making and what this is all about.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PM sent, sir. Thanks!
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