Idler, Belt and Direct drive Turntables

[audiokong]

I started listening to lp records years ago. My Turntable then was a DUAL 1229 with a Shure 97 He cartridge. I know now that it was not adjusted to its full potential. But even in that condition, I really enjoyed listening to it then, knowing now that it could be tweaked to its full potential. It is in storage now. I upgraded to a Rek-o-kut belt drive and that made me listen to lps more and started collecting records. I read a lot of articles regarding Rek-o-kut particularly JEsmilla's site, wiredstate, audiokarma, and vinyl assylum, made me look for an idler. I found a Rek-o-kut B121h with Micropoise arm with Benz MC20E2which became my main rig. I did minimum work on it and I was happy. I know that it could do better with all the upgrade that JE's recommended but I am not a good handyman so it is on hold. I acquired an Empire 589 a belt drive with Empire 2000Z cartridge. It is very impressive with its performance. Very dark background can not hear any motor hum or rumble even when volume is up, compared to the Rek-O-Kut which has an acceptable level of rumble when playing with raised volume. The Empire 589 is impressive connected to a Marantz Integrated Amplifier PM 84D to a Vanderteen Model 2CE. As good as the Empire 589, I listen to vinyl more on my Rek-o-kut because it has more realistic sound heavier bass and sweet mid and shimmering high I enjoy listening to it more than the Empire. Is it because it is connected to the Bellari VP 150, Pilot 402 vintage tube amp console? Speakers are also vintage Pilot most likely all alnico magnets. Or maybe because of having an MC cartridge with the Benz. do not know why but the idler is my preference. Now, I just bought a Pioneer PL550 a direct drive turntable with original Pioneer arm do not know the model but it is the one with a long metal hanging on its left side like a hammer which I do not know what it's function. Very heavy turntable with original Pioneer PC 50 cartridge but the needle has to be replaced. They are about $24.00 for replacement. In the mean time I will test it with a Shure 97XE. I have not played it yet since it is in my shop at work. I will update you with how will it go but very excited having to be able to compare the three turntables particularly with the way they are driven. Also the Pioneer has a Quartz lock. Whats that? I do not know, but the markers on the platter all stop moving when the quartz lock button is pressed. So I know that is good. Please comment, I would appreciate if you could give me pointer on how these three turntables could get to their full potentials.

[audiokong]

I finally set up the Pioneer PL550 with a Shure 97Xe cartridge. I connected it to a Yamaha Integrated amplifier to a Yamaha speakers with 12" woofer and horn driver. I played 2 sides of LP Lee Ritennour, Captain Finger, and a Frank Sinatra record a 6 eye columbia both of them are VG+ vinyls. First impression is that the Pioneer has a very dark background, what I mean is that the ticks and pops and some graininess is not as pronounced compared to the Empire. I think it is because of it being very heavy and also the speed is spot on due to it having a Quartz lock. It is a little bit dry not as sweet as the Rek-o-kut and weak in bass and more of a CD like sounding rig. But also it's not broken in yet. Overall it is a good turntable and has a lot of potential I think when coupled with a good cartridge and connected to a good electronics to drive it. It is a very nice addition to a growing collection. well see when it is broken in and connected to a tube amplifier.

[northwardnimbus]

wow that rek o cut is sure handsome

[audiokong]

wow that rek o cut is sure handsome

northwardnimbus
Citizen


Posts: 330
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 1:30 am

Thank you, it is my main TT that I use. I had a belt drive Rek-O-kut K33H,with a 120 arm on it that I used before going crazy on Rek-O-kut, it is now in the Philippines on storage. Then I had a Rondine that has rumble I can not solve then I bought an L34 also with a Micropoise till I bought this B12H. The Rondine and the L34 are on storage right now. I really like these Rek-O-Kuts. Thank you.

[setup1]

I am not familiar with the Benz MC20E2 but keep in mind the ROK Gyropoise tonearm is MASSIVE. I feel it is a bit too much even for the DL103, though I used it with good results. That said I felt most comfortable using the Shure M3D or M7D on ROK tonearms, a common pairing during that era. The cheap Stanton V500 or Shure SC35 (with conical stylii) are good modern alternatives. The Ortofon SPU is also a suitable candidate but it has to be taken out of the head shell (or get the nude version) because ROK tonearms do not have a universal IEC mount.

FWIW, with the limited adjustment (and aforementioned mass) I highly recommend using conical stylus tracking at around 3-4 grams. It will be kinder to LPs than a mis aligned complex profile stylus plowing at 2 grams. Also IME, a massive tonearm/low compliance cartridge combination tends to subdue the faintest residual rumble from vintage idler turntables.

A lot of the LPs we enjoy now were not all played on transcription turntables, most went through record changers tracking at over 4 grams and they only survive in listen-able condition because of the conical stylus.

Happy listening!

[Mamimili]

i tried a Benz MC20E2 on various TT/arm combinations and gave up. On all it sounded thin, shrill, fingers down the blackboard sound. It lacks bass (and i am not a bass fan).

If you find a set up that makes it sound halfway decent, let us know!

[tenderobject]

nice turntables! rek-o-kut! pangarap kong jackpot!

[audiokong]

I am not familiar with the Benz MC20E2 but keep in mind the ROK Gyropoise tonearm is MASSIVE. I feel it is a bit too much even for the DL103, though I used it with good results. That said I felt most comfortable using the Shure M3D or M7D on ROK tonearms, a common pairing during that era. The cheap Stanton V500 or Shure SC35 (with conical stylii) are good modern alternatives. The Ortofon SPU is also a suitable candidate but it has to be taken out of the head shell (or get the nude version) because ROK tonearms do not have a universal IEC mount.

FWIW, with the limited adjustment (and aforementioned mass) I highly recommend using conical stylus tracking at around 3-4 grams. It will be kinder to LPs than a mis aligned complex profile stylus plowing at 2 grams. Also IME, a massive tonearm/low compliance cartridge combination tends to subdue the faintest residual rumble from vintage idler turntables.

A lot of the LPs we enjoy now were not all played on transcription turntables, most went through record changers tracking at over 4 grams and they only survive in listen-able condition because of the conical stylus.

Happy listening!
setup1
Citizen


Posts: 449
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 9:20 pm
Location: USA/QC


Thank you setup1 for your advice. I will start seeking for your recommended cartridges for my micropoise arm. Your input is valuable to me since your articles made me aware of Rek-O-Kut and became a fan of this TT. I have a Pickering V15 AT2 is that cartridge a good match to the Micropoise?

[setup1]

I have a Pickering V15 AT2 is that cartridge a good match to the Micropoise?

If memory serves me right there was a Pickering V15 body which was the equivalent of an older Stanton 500 pictured in my website. If that's the Pick-V15 you have equipped with a conical stylus, it is worth trying.

Enjoy!

[audiokong]

Re: Idler, Belt and Direct drive Turntables
by Mamimili » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:54 am

i tried a Benz MC20E2 on various TT/arm combinations and gave up. On all it sounded thin, shrill, fingers down the blackboard sound. It lacks bass (and i am not a bass fan).

If you find a set up that makes it sound halfway decent, let us know!

Mamimili
Master


Posts: 3357
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:09 am
Location: Surabaya

Thank you, Mamimili, Your observation with regards to the Benz MC20E2 lacking bass I pretty much agree. Compared to my Shure 97Xe it is sure sounds thin, and I am also not a bass guy, so happy with it. With setup1 recommendations I will seek a better match for my micropoise arm since I like it's vintage look.

audiokong