Where were they?

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Where were they?

Postby Mamimili » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:34 pm

Something i have often wondered about, how accurate is our reproduction of live recordings?

While listening to Coltrane's Live in Birdland yesterday (not the original but the 1997 reissue) i have the piano dead center but behind, drums left and slightly forward of the piano, bass from all over and sax in front center to in front center right, all in a fairly close grouped soundstage between the speakers.
Where was everyone when the recording was made?
I could not find actual footage on youtube and not all LP covers have actual photographs.

I assume that just because a setup disc says left & right channel are correct it does not guarantee actual positions.
(I think Tyner's piano deserves a boost!)

While not taking anything away from the music, it would be good to know i am hearing sound coming from where it was meant to be on all live lp's, not just this one!
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Re: Where were they?

Postby jadis » Tue May 01, 2018 6:58 pm

Mamimili wrote:Something i have often wondered about, how accurate is our reproduction of live recordings?

While listening to Coltrane's Live in Birdland yesterday (not the original but the 1997 reissue) i have the piano dead center but behind, drums left and slightly forward of the piano, bass from all over and sax in front center to in front center right, all in a fairly close grouped soundstage between the speakers.
Where was everyone when the recording was made?
I could not find actual footage on youtube and not all LP covers have actual photographs.

I assume that just because a setup disc says left & right channel are correct it does not guarantee actual positions.
(I think Tyner's piano deserves a boost!)

While not taking anything away from the music, it would be good to know i am hearing sound coming from where it was meant to be on all live lp's, not just this one!


I have often wondered this myself, Paul. Most commercial recordings will not have this info. I think even audiophile recordings have few such LPs with such information regarding the exact placement of the musicians in the soundstage. Right now I can think of only 1 Telarc LP that has this 'diagram' as to who is placed where in the soundstage.
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Re: Where were they?

Postby audiostar » Tue May 01, 2018 8:27 pm

Mamimili wrote:Something i have often wondered about, how accurate is our reproduction of live recordings?

While listening to Coltrane's Live in Birdland yesterday (not the original but the 1997 reissue) i have the piano dead center but behind, drums left and slightly forward of the piano, bass from all over and sax in front center to in front center right, all in a fairly close grouped soundstage between the speakers.
Where was everyone when the recording was made?
I could not find actual footage on youtube and not all LP covers have actual photographs.

I assume that just because a setup disc says left & right channel are correct it does not guarantee actual positions.
(I think Tyner's piano deserves a boost!)

While not taking anything away from the music, it would be good to know i am hearing sound coming from where it was meant to be on all live lp's, not just this one!


Paul, you may have gotten a copy with a terrible pressing. Not all LPs are pressed equal. It's one in a million that you'd find one bad egg, and you're just so unlucky, maybe, to have gotten one.
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Re: Where were they?

Postby Mamimili » Wed May 02, 2018 1:04 am

Philip, ok so i will have to assume what i see/hear is correct!

Val, i am not sure what you mean, i dont think this particular LP is bad, i just want to know if where i "see" the musicians is where they were when the recording was made. (or if things got mixed up during production / when the album was reissued etc).
As the sound and image of Coltrane moves around more than the others, i assume what i hear is accurate but it would be good if confirmed. I call it an itch that i cannot scratch!

OK, who has the same reissue copy?

I need to find the original mono as well.......
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Re: Where were they?

Postby jadis » Wed May 02, 2018 9:07 am

Paul,

You may be looking for something like this on the upper right photo, with illustration on the positioning of the players and instruments. This one from a Wilson Test LP. Rare to find LPs with these things.

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Re: Where were they?

Postby Mamimili » Wed May 02, 2018 9:58 am

Guess which LP i just added to my wish list?
Thanks Philip!
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Re: Where were they?

Postby jadis » Wed May 02, 2018 12:25 pm

Mamimili wrote:Guess which LP i just added to my wish list?
Thanks Philip!


anytime. happy hunting.
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Re: Where were they?

Postby Jon Agner » Fri May 04, 2018 8:06 pm

most Mercury Living Presence recordings back in the 60's were recorded in a 3 mic setup, direct to 2 channel tape, thus what you hear is the actual location of each musician or instrument. Three Blind mice recordings do have a detailed description of its process in its liner notes
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Re: Where were they?

Postby jadis » Sat May 05, 2018 8:24 am

Hey Jon, you're right, I never noticed the TBM liner notes, maybe because I don't read Japanese. :D

This one is from the album Midnight Sugar, Yamamoto Trio.

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Re: Where were they?

Postby Mamimili » Sat May 05, 2018 10:18 am

Jon Agner wrote:most Mercury Living Presence recordings back in the 60's were recorded in a 3 mic setup, direct to 2 channel tape, thus what you hear is the actual location of each musician or instrument. Three Blind mice recordings do have a detailed description of its process in its liner notes


Thanks Jon, I know I have some Living Presence lp’s but I think they are in mono!
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Re: Where were they?

Postby Jon Agner » Sat May 05, 2018 12:43 pm

Phil,

Jazz at the porkchop este Pawnshop :P had a detailed description on how it was recorded on two channel tape :)
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