SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Moderator: mandym

SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby mandym » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:48 am

As soon as I received a Shelter 201 birthday gift, I set it up on my system. I had been using a nude Denon 103R for a long stretch of time and my initial impressions were:
The 201 shocks with soundstage that is wide and deep. The Denon shocks with details and holographic imaging.

I listened comfortably to the 201 for 2 weeks but started to miss the Denon's strengths. Choral music was a bit "jumbled" and the midrange was too pronounced. The lower bass region was present but a little effete. Yet, in spite of its shortcomings the 201 is "human" while the Denon is on the "Technicolor" side. Is there a way to make the 201 submit to the Dungeonmeisters desires? Off to the Dungeon!

A Eureka moment: Turning lead into gold
After hours of gazing and toying with the cartridges, I finally stumbled upon a major problem of Moving Magnet cartridges. It was plain as day! Almost all MMs are designed to have user-replaceable needles. That means (dummy me) the whole stylus assembly is free to move. Taking into account mechanical tolerances, they can be very loose or very tight. It is not very consoling that even tightly fitting parts move on a microscopic scale.

Image

Convinced that I was on the right track, I did "it" to my mint Shelter 201. I locked the replaceable stylus assembly onto the cartridge body by bonding it with tiny dabs of epoxy at strategic spots. For good measure, I also sawed off a large portion of the assembly carrier to remove cavity resonance.

Image

The results?
Much, much better than I expected. The midrange hump, though not totally tamed, sounds glorious, does not run out of steam. The lower end comes off with more authority; dynamics and transient response much improved! The wide soundstage remained but has "moved" significantly forward. I surmise that this is a psychoacoustical(?) response to an increase in details which could tend to make sound sources seem closer.
The modified Shelter 102 has now replaced my nude Denon 103R as my reference.

I highly recommend epoxy bonding as a remedy for the Achilles' Heel of MM cartridges. This is specially useful for Shure cartridges where I have noticed many loose stylus assemblies. For the faint-hearted, use only pinhead-sized dabs of epoxy. It can be sliced off later with a sharp scalpel if you ever want to go back (which I doubt) to a loose stylus assembly!

In Gratitude:
Many, many thanks to my "Patron Saints" Chester and Squirrelnutzipper who unfailingly exhort and support me to do work which might benefit our Audio Community. They have very kindly loaned me quality equipment which has proved very helpful in doing my experiments. Merci, Gracias, Salamat po!
User avatar
mandym
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:30 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby Tjaderman » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:01 am

Another magnificent discovery from the master!!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap:
User avatar
Tjaderman
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:56 am
Location: San Pedro, Laguna

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby qguy » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:06 am

how about hot glue ?
User avatar
qguy
Master
Master
 
Posts: 2539
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:23 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby Hyperion » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:10 am

Slightly modified shelter now ...
I imagine that Shelter 201 with exotic wooden light weight low resonance body (um bamboo? hehe) soon ...
and who knows? maybe first locally made cart from San Pablo after that. 8)
User avatar
Hyperion
Moderator
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:57 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby Superman » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:18 am

CONGRATS Sir Mandy!! :D
User avatar
Superman
Master Showman
 
Posts: 15235
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:41 pm
Location: Davao City

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby audiostar » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:13 pm

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Wow!! simply Wow!!
User avatar
audiostar
Moderator
 
Posts: 3620
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:03 pm
Location: audio nirvana st., speakers corner ave. music city, mars

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby corrsty » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:23 pm

When I requested for your impressions on the Shelter 201, never did I realize another "experiment" was in the making! I should have known better :D

Thank you for sharing this great mod to us mortals. Sana ma-modify din yung akin ;) ;) ;)
User avatar
corrsty
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:31 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby mandym » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:01 pm

@qguy

It is difficult to control hot melt glue and it is not as firm as epoxy. You can of course try it, it is easily removable if you don't like it.

@corrsty

Don't worry, it is very easy to do with a sharpened toothpick. Just make sure the stylus assembly is pushed all the way in, put a dab (size of a pinhead) of epoxy on a spot on both sides of the plastic stylus assembly carrier. You might not need to cut the carrier like I did, it is just "icing on the cake".
At any rate, send it to me and I'll do the gluing for you.
User avatar
mandym
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:30 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby JoeyGS » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:14 pm

Sir Mandy,

A similar tweak was made by one of our WS member here. Although the gluing of the styli/Cantilever carrier was not glued to the cartridge, instead, epoxy was applied to the carrier housing to eliminate the carrier cavity resonance. It was applied to a shure N35E and resulted in sonic improvement. Now that your idea to fix the carrier to the cart body showed good results, I may add this tweak and see ( actually 'hear') what happens. :)

Thank you for sharing.

BTW, would using instant superglue also an alternative to the epoxy?

Any specific type of epoxy?

Regards,
JoeyGS
User avatar
JoeyGS
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1638
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: Sta. Rosa, Laguna

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby mandym » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:56 pm

JoeyGS wrote:Sir Mandy,

A similar tweak was made by one of our WS member here. Although the gluing of the styli/Cantilever carrier was not glued to the cartridge, instead, epoxy was applied to the carrier housing to eliminate the carrier cavity resonance. It was applied to a shure N35E and resulted in sonic improvement. Now that your idea to fix the carrier to the cart body showed good results, I may add this tweak and see ( actually 'hear') what happens. :)

Thank you for sharing.

BTW, would using instant superglue also an alternative to the epoxy?

Any specific type of epoxy?

Regards,
JoeyGS


As I mentioned to Corrsty, eliminating the cavity resonance was in my opinion "icing on the cake". Apparently from your actual experience, it makes an appreciable improvement also. I believe the major improvement is in immobilizing the carrier. If you do this, hopefully you will not only hear but see and feel the improvement as well :) :) .

Superglue is better than epoxy because it is much harder and will not flex. However, it is quite "nasty" and by capillary action will creep into all sorts of places and will mess up the appearance of the cartridge with white coating called "bloom". Also once you have the parts bonded, that's it, they are bonded for life! The epoxy I use is the 5-minute epoxy from Pioneer company.
User avatar
mandym
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:30 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby randybarba » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:57 pm

Wow. Congrats on your successful experiment sir mandy :) . That's truly pinoy ingenuity :rock:
randybarba
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1508
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: St. Luke's Medical Center

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby corrsty » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:11 pm

mandym wrote:
@corrsty

Don't worry, it is very easy to do with a sharpened toothpick. Just make sure the stylus assembly is pushed all the way in, put a dab (size of a pinhead) of epoxy on a spot on both sides of the plastic stylus assembly carrier. You might not need to cut the carrier like I did, it is just "icing on the cake".
At any rate, send it to me and I'll do the gluing for you.


Thanks Tito Mandy. I'll try if I have the guts to "operate" myself but if I chicken out, I'll send mine to you :)
User avatar
corrsty
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:31 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby zenaudio » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:30 pm

Great experiment and results!
This is the kind that makes one say, "oo nga ano?" :clap:
Mandy's wonders talaga.
User avatar
zenaudio
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2038
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:34 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby northwardnimbus » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:08 pm

wow! i dunno if im brave enuf to do this to my cart! galing! :clap:
User avatar
northwardnimbus
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 5:30 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby Mamimili » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:50 pm

i have to try it, cheers Mandy :clap:
User avatar
Mamimili
Master
Master
 
Posts: 4308
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Subang

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby quarterback » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:12 am

congrats herr mandy!
quarterback
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2488
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:02 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby mandym » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:36 am

zenaudio wrote:Great experiment and results!
This is the kind that makes one say, "oo nga ano?" :clap:


Really! It makes so much sense and so obvious that I was struck with wonder why MM manufacturers hadn't seen it! Their Engineering people could have easily come up with a solution while retaining the "user-replaceable" status.
Even if it did not make any improvement to the sound, it would have made excellent advertising copy!

Come on Corrsty and northwardnimbus! No guts, no glory :D :D .

Mamimili, please do give it a try. Don't do the chop job, just the bonding part. A teeny pimp of epoxy will do at the junction of the plastic carrier and the side of the cart body, preferably closer to the bottom. One dab per side. Share the results, good and bad please.

I now have a no-holds-barred bonding technique to guarantee total immobility of the whole stylus support system but that will scare your pants off, so I am keeping it secret ;) ;) .
User avatar
mandym
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:30 pm

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby JoeyGS » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:52 am

Hmmmm....I wonder if this can be done to the Shure M97xe :^) . I will try this first with my Shure N35E :)
User avatar
JoeyGS
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1638
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: Sta. Rosa, Laguna

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby highlander » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:14 pm

JoeyGS wrote:Hmmmm....I wonder if this can be done to the Shure M97xe :^) . I will try this first with my Shure N35E :)


I was thinking the same idea....the brush assembly can be the first 'victim' ;) :tmi:
User avatar
highlander
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1823
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 12:58 pm
Location: Baguio

Re: SHELTER 201 dismembered at the Dungeon

Postby mandym » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:03 pm

highlander wrote:
JoeyGS wrote:Hmmmm....I wonder if this can be done to the Shure M97xe :^) . I will try this first with my Shure N35E :)


I was thinking the same idea....the brush assembly can be the first 'victim' ;) :tmi:


HANG ON! Isn't the brush better taken off? Also (please pardon my cautionary advise, I just want to be perfectly safe) please do not glue the brush at the "down" position, that will be a complete disaster!

Let's go where "angels fear to tread" and break new grounds. For souls who are willing to take some risks there are always treasures waiting to be found!
User avatar
mandym
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:30 pm

Next

Return to Mandy's Wonders

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron