Who do you believe???

Solidstate (amps, preamps), Tweaks, Cables, New gear, etc...

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Postby JackD201 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:43 pm

8) I give up :wink:
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Postby amandarae » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:51 pm

sinar wrote:my comment on this line "My point is that PRAT is a STATE OF MIND. Its definition is to one's personal preference. To each his own! Nothing more nothing less." is that from my experieince of hearing and owning different systems, it's either your system have it or not (PRAT). its not a play of someone's state of mind.


I respect your comment!

Here's my rebuttal:

Please do not take my comments literally. I meant PRAT as a state of mind as personal biases, personal preference, to ones own liking and the like. In short my own ears, my own mind, my own definition of PRAT. Ist it the same to you? I hope not!

Yes, I agree, that maybe you learned a lot from having owned a lot of systems. Good for you then! But it is difficult to say that ones definition of PRAT will be the same (i.e. either you have it or not).

What was the reason you keep changing your system? Maybe you do have a lot of money to spare. That is possible indeed and you just keep on getting new stuff because you like to broaden your experience or say audio pallette . Maybe because you are trying to get the best sound to your liking. You seek and seek (thus the system change) and finally you have it.

Through out the changes, does your definition of "PRAT" changes also? More likely right, since you were changing your system for the better aint it? Your preference and taste of how your system delivers music to you becomes more sophisticated as you move on, you were trying to squeeze the last ounce to get what you like. As yo get closer and closer to what you were trying to achieved in your set up, it is safe to assume that you are judging the changes through your ears also because you have it preset (but could definitely change in an instant) in your mind all along what the Pace of your system should be, you know what type of Rhythm you want to hear in your sytem, and you know what Timing, as defined by your own self, sounds best to you. One's state of mind or not? My point exactly!


oh and another thing. pls don't get confused with the real meaning of PRAT as to the total tonality of the system


This one, I have nothing to say. You lost me here.


I am posting here to express my views. I am expressing my personal view points of the subject matter. Yes, sometimes I include some humor in my post to make the discussion a little bit wholesome. I never intend to offend anybody. In fact I will not be bothered by a little chiding if it is called for.

This is the end of the line for me about discussing PRAT. But with all due respect, I will remember your comments nevertless about the subject matter.

good day!
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Postby sinar » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:19 pm

as what JackD201 said, i give up. there's no point in making the discussion longer when those concerned are not aware of the real stuff. i just hope that someday you'll know what i mean. as what my audio buddy once said after upgrading to the ML, " you have to live with it to know the real meaning of PRAT". he also owns an electrocompaniet and a BAT power amp.
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Postby zach » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:43 am

:)
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Postby JackD201 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:07 am

Hey Sinar, do you own that 33H peeking from behind what looks like verity speakers on your avatar?
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Postby jo2 » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:22 am

sinar wrote:as what JackD201 said, i give up. there's no point in making the discussion longer when those concerned are not aware of the real stuff. i just hope that someday you'll know what i mean. as what my audio buddy once said after upgrading to the ML, " you have to live with it to know the real meaning of PRAT". he also owns an electrocompaniet and a BAT power amp.


Please do not associate EXPENSIVE GEAR as the LAST FRONTIER FOR MUSICALITY or the answer to my NEVER ENDING QUEST for my PREFERRED SONIC NIRVANA coz it is NOT and I can attest to that.


I may not owned ML#33 or 33H , KRELL Master Reference, EC Nemo
VTL Wotans , and Audio Research REF 600 or anything else but heard all them in an almost perfect room.

But I'ved owned and have experienced their other product offerings.


I don't think it's that easy..... maybe if you got a POT of GOLD which I and most of us here do not currently have. :(

Picture this,

As an example will use ML#33 as the perfect amp for everything -Transparency...Dynamics....Midrange Purity....Holographic imaging......PRAT.....Yadayadayada....


Would'nt it be boring if every single Audiophile/Music lover owns one???

And I would'nt be here because I've attained my QUEST already. :wink:
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Postby amandarae » Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:25 am

sinar wrote:as what JackD201 said, i give up. there's no point in making the discussion longer when those concerned are not aware of the real stuff. i just hope that someday you'll know what i mean. as what my audio buddy once said after upgrading to the ML, " you have to live with it to know the real meaning of PRAT". he also owns an electrocompaniet and a BAT power amp.


Oh boy! You left this so wide open didn't you?

Now I understand. I for one cannot experienced the real stuff because I do not have a Mark Levinson amps? Verity Audio speakers?

That's cool! I may never afford those things. But I heard them.


i just hope that someday you'll know what i mean


Really? Pardon me but I don't think so! What did I say from my past posting here. "Mine is better than yours" so I know. This is a classic example of this IMO.

when those concerned are not aware of the real stuff


That is harsh! :( But it is okay. I am in this forum to learn. No hard feelings.

Life goes on!
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Postby vintage_dog » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:19 am

ladies and gentlemen,

let's please move on....

we are not here to prove who is right and who is wrong, who has a better system and who has a mediocre one, who owns the "best" gear, etc, etc.

we are all here in these forums to learn, share our experiences and have fun... we have different opinions and preferences (not to mention hearing abilities and budgets) but let's peacefully co-exist and debate objectively...

cheers! :)
Last edited by vintage_dog on Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dogears » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:24 am

history repeats itself, di lang history - pati threads like this :lol:

:D I am experiencing sonic bliss [PRAT!] here in the office right now with my personal gear :D currently playing Metallica's Black album :D

and dudes, don't forget to just enjoy the music - PRAT or no PRAT :)
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Postby zach » Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:44 pm

ey amandarae by "real stuff" i think what sinar meant was its what she gets out of her mls. that thing that she did not with previous systems. all she is saying is that you won't understand what she is talking about until you have spent some quality time with the unit and not a few hours at a store or at a friend's place. what's happening here is that one is talking about apples and the other oranges. her version of prat is what she found in the ml. prat? people find that in different places, amps, speakers, etc. sinar found hers with the ml. others may find it with audio research, others conrad-johnson, vtl, halcro etc. usually ang mga nag kakaintindihan ay yung mga may ka pareho or ka brand ng unit, because they have spent time with it, and when in a get together, talk about a consistent thing that they have loved and experienced with the brand. hence we got die hard conrad fans, dynaco fans, tube fans, solidstate, etc having a great time when put into one room amongst their "ka pamilya" talking about their personal experiences with their repective units of the same brand. prat for me is real. just like some people, i don't "hear" it with other brands, but also apreciate it with others. :)
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Postby boobtube » Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:58 pm

I hate to say this but some EXPENSIVE gears could really give you quality that cheaper gears can't! Bitter pill to swallow.


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Postby handyboy » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:05 pm

Its so hot in here!

This is my prat- CJ mv45 power amp, Cj pv10a, triangle zerius speakers, Mozillas hybrid interconnects, project rpm 9 tt. I Found my prat. prat-ing happy ako sa tunog ng set up ko.:)
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Postby arnoldc » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:10 pm

boobtube wrote:I hate to say this but some EXPENSIVE gears could really give you quality that cheaper gears can't! Bitter pill to swallow.

TRUE

and some inexpensive gears could really give you the SONIC quality that matches or even surpass some expensive gear.

fair enough
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Postby highlander » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:17 pm

arnoldc wrote:
boobtube wrote:I hate to say this but some EXPENSIVE gears could really give you quality that cheaper gears can't! Bitter pill to swallow.

TRUE

and some inexpensive gears could really give you the SONIC quality that matches or even surpass some expensive gear.

fair enough



Amen to that! :wink:
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Postby zach » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:35 pm

now goingback to prat. hmmmm. my referenc is live music. i play live an average of about 4 times a week. as a drummer/percussionist i have this gripe about equipment sort of quantising the the pace, rhythm and timing of a recording. certain amps are so slow that the pitch alters, other amps so fast nag kaka micro sharp yung kanta. in other words naiba na from the original. last week i recorded a christmas song for jam 88.3, the little drummer boy, w/c is a snare heavy song. we listened to it in their system and everything just sounded wrong. yung snare direderetso lang. na wala yung mga subtle hesitations ng palo ko, yung mga ibang hina ng ghost notes, etc, it sounded like a clock, like a machine. plus ang bilis! parang ako nagmamadali, nawala yung feel ng palo. layo from where i mixed and mastered it. now others who heard it in jam just looked at me in puzzlement when i gave a scowl when i heard it in their system.they couldn't hear anything wrong with the tune. well i thought, its because they haven't heard how it was really supposed to sound. some amps can really get the prat right, some just don't. and of course to others this doesn't really matter because they were not in the studio to begin with so why bother. point is for me prat is real, its just up to you if you want to give it that much importance. prat is definitely associated with time and the dynamic capabilities of your system. one way to check it? get a guitar instructional audio cd, buy or borrow a guitar tuner and check if the gutar coming out of the speakers is in tune with your tuner or not. if not, then your system is altering the signal, kung sharp bumilis sya, kung flat, bumagal. tapos kung mahina pa sa dynamics yung system, the whole presentation will sound flat and mechanical, hence no pace, rhythm and timing.
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Postby boobtube » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:43 pm

arnoldc wrote:
boobtube wrote:I hate to say this but some EXPENSIVE gears could really give you quality that cheaper gears can't! Bitter pill to swallow.

TRUE

and some inexpensive gears could really give you the SONIC quality that matches or even surpass some expensive gear.

fair enough



But in your case, your turntable and tone arm is in no way inexpensive. :D

joke lang maganda naman eh. :D
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Postby arnoldc » Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:56 pm

no problem boobtube, it's also true :D

zach, you hit the nail in the head. ganda ng explanation mo!
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Postby zach » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:26 pm

:)
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Postby dogears » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:44 am

galing ng input mo zach

...when i added a headphone amp to my personal office audio gear - nagka'prat' na siya! listening to doug mcleod once... 'nakakatakot' yung mga pluck sa strings - parang mapapatid :D, sa metallica - sarap pakinggan mga bayo sa drums, sa mga big band - mas big band na talaga sila - pati mga torotot talagang nanonorotot :lol:
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Postby zach » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:15 pm

haha nanonnorotot. sounds obscene. hehe.
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