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Who do you believe???

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:31 pm
by jo2

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:36 am
by Doc Jr 8156
Jo2,
Nice article. This will ruffle some feathers definitely. Put your asbestos jackets on and get ready for the incoming flames. Ha..ha...ha..ha! Godspeeed.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:54 am
by jo2
Doc Jr 8156,

Thanks!

Not here to wage WAR or to forced personal beliefs and ideology but to EDUCATE others from making MISTAKES which most of us we've been too.

No amount of preaching and ranting about AUDIO can make one HARDCORE to twist and bend his/her personal preference/s.

BUT

We are here to SHARE and LEARN experience you and I ( and others) had to trek to our own definition of Sonic Nirvana.

In the end, it'll be an expensive path to which we all go through....... :wink:

Cheers!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:38 am
by amandarae
Ahhh, Now we're talking about PRAT or at least we're trying to. It is elusive no doubt, but subjective or exclusive also depending on the circumstances or lack there of. Like my grade two teacher said: A person seeking PRAT is like a dragon swallowing its own tail. It's giving him sustenance to be alive and strong but at the same time destroying him.

Okay,okay, that maybe too deep! You know, I never had a chance to ask my teacher what does that really means. But my point is that trying to figure out Prat is like saying " Is the ocean wet?" If you try to chase what other people's definition of PRAT is, it will destroy you and your wallet and not necessarily in that order.

After listening to your system (sans new upgrades) and at the end of a track you feel you want to cry with joy and the only thing that stops you from clapping and shouting exuberantly is your better half so as not to think that you are loosing your insanity. That could be PRAT!

When you are Pacing yourself on the room overlooking the window watching the road for the UPS truck to come humming in a reckless Rythm, hoping that your Timing will be flawless in sneaking your new toy inside the house so that your wife will not see it, that can also be PRAT!

My conclusion, there is no concrete description or explanation of PRAT! It is an acronym coined by an egoist to claim: " Mine is better than yours!"

So it seems that PRAT is not a measurement nor it is a scale. It is however a state of mind.

Then again, I could be wrong.


Chill!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:49 am
by JackD201
I have a simple prat test that works for me everytime. If I tap my toes there's prat. If I tap my toes and bite my lip and just keep from outright dancing by myself there's PRAT. It ain't the definition guys it's the feeling! :) Either the music moves you or it doesn't. Simple enough I think.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:04 am
by ichabod
Good morning! Nice way of putting it. Why should it be anything too high fallutin?

"Feelings?" Yes, if it pulls my hearstrings! That's PRAT indeed!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:47 am
by dogears
I definitely agree with the last paragraph of the article :)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:09 pm
by jo2
amandarae,

Hmmm….

Like my grade two teacher said: A person seeking PRAT is like a dragon swallowing its own tail. It's giving him sustenance to be alive and strong but at the same time destroying him.


36 summers long!


See if I get this right.

At GRADE TWO you must be 7-8 years old……..

At 2004, you’re 36 years old….

Right ??

Are you saying:

1. the term “PRAT” (pace, rhythm & timing) was already existent back then? Circa 1974-75?
2. You’re Grade TWO teacher was (is) an Audiophile?
3. That saying, “A person seeking PRAT is like a dragon swallowing its own tail. It's giving him sustenance to be alive and strong but at the same time destroying him.” Was a LIE and you just made it up!


Hmmm….. :roll:

Sorry but I’m not buying this! :? :?

Could you please enlighten me?

Please reply and support you’re answers.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:08 am
by amandarae
Jo2,

He,he,he! Where's your sense of humor? I am just speaking out of context there, so lighten up!

My point is that PRAT is a STATE OF MIND. Its definition is to one's personal preference. To each his own! Nothing more nothing less.

My apologies to those I confused from my post!

Happy holidays!

Cheers!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:50 am
by JackD201
It's getting hot in here. Whew.

Aren't there days when you just can't seem to find your rythm? You can't make a good golf swing, sink a free throw, whatever. Aren't there days when no matter how hard you try your system just doesn't sound right? Days you spend hours trying to tweak and go to bed exasperated? Has it ever happened to you that the very next evening after a hard day of fulfilling work you plunk down in your chair and voila! Everthing is perfect? This happens to all of us in the hobby. As a techie, I understand the science. I was trained to sniff out audible problems and solve them but you know what? When it comes to listening for pleasure I have to UN-Train myself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we, yup ourselves, are the only real roadblock to what Jo2 refers to Sonic Nirvana. Many members here have found happiness in their systems wether humble or extravagant I think because they've accepted the fact that those systems will never be perfect but recognize that they get the important things right. Some of them might not be able to tell the difference between groove echo and recorded roomtone but hey while we try to explore every circuit, every theory they're out there enjoying. Lighten up guys. PRAT? Jeez! It's just a term coined by some reviewer, who may actually have been stoned while hammering on his Ollivetti. We'll never know. I call it boogie factor. You can call it whatever you like. I hate to be preachy but there's no greater waste of energy than cynicism. Cynicism is a sign that you're too chicken to make a mistake and not big enough to accept it. Cynics have the hardest time accepting new paradigms (e.g. the earth is round), almost always end up bitter, lonely and suicidal and almost always end up contributing nothing but criticism. How can you tell somebody is a cynic? Cynics always want to be convinced by someone else.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:58 am
by JackD201
Oh yeah. How can you tell if someone is a sucker? A sucker lets other people decide a purely personal choice.

Get the info. Make up your own mind. You'll have no one to blame. You WILL be happy with your choices.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:27 am
by hein
HAHAHA, Way to go, JAKD! Finally, an audiophile with BALLS! :D

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:57 am
by amandarae
JackD201 wrote:It's getting hot in here. Whew.

Aren't there days when you just can't seem to find your rythm? You can't make a good golf swing, sink a free throw, whatever. Aren't there days when no matter how hard you try your system just doesn't sound right? Days you spend hours trying to tweak and go to bed exasperated? Has it ever happened to you that the very next evening after a hard day of fulfilling work you plunk down in your chair and voila! Everthing is perfect? This happens to all of us in the hobby. As a techie, I understand the science. I was trained to sniff out audible problems and solve them but you know what? When it comes to listening for pleasure I have to UN-Train myself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we, yup ourselves, are the only real roadblock to what Jo2 refers to Sonic Nirvana. Many members here have found happiness in their systems wether humble or extravagant I think because they've accepted the fact that those systems will never be perfect but recognize that they get the important things right. Some of them might not be able to tell the difference between groove echo and recorded roomtone but hey while we try to explore every circuit, every theory they're out there enjoying. Lighten up guys. PRAT? Jeez! It's just a term coined by some reviewer, who may actually have been stoned while hammering on his Ollivetti. We'll never know. I call it boogie factor. You can call it whatever you like. I hate to be preachy but there's no greater waste of energy than cynicism. Cynicism is a sign that you're too chicken to make a mistake and not big enough to accept it. Cynics have the hardest time accepting new paradigms (e.g. the earth is round), almost always end up bitter, lonely and suicidal and almost always end up contributing nothing but criticism. How can you tell somebody is a cynic? Cynics always want to be convinced by someone else.


Point very well taken!

Never meant to insinuate anything out of the thread. I am cool!
Life goes on!

cheers!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:28 am
by Doc Jr 8156
ARAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY! Godspeed.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:46 am
by jo2
amandarae,

I didn’t upset you, did I? I wasn’t having a go on you. I know you’re a sport. :)

You know that we RESPECT and VALUE each other’s opinion from other FORUMS outside WS.

I believe whatever and whichever PATH we take towards obtaining our Audio Bliss is a matter of personal preference.

I didn’t stop there!

I want to explore on what else is out there!

And maybe SHARE and EDUCATE the others.

Whether it’s ridiculous, stupid, and weird I can confidently say I’ve done it even it didn’t made a cut to my own goals.

TRY…EXPERIMENT…LISTEN…AND LEARN….MAYBE SHARE YOUR FINDINGS AND EXPERIENCE.

Catch my drift? :wink:

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:16 am
by amandarae
jo2 wrote:amandarae,

I didn’t upset you, did I? I wasn’t having a go on you. I know you’re a sport. :)

You know that we RESPECT and VALUE each other’s opinion from other FORUMS outside WS.

I believe whatever and whichever PATH we take towards obtaining our Audio Bliss is a matter of personal preference.

I didn’t stop there!

I want to explore on what else is out there!

And maybe SHARE and EDUCATE the others.

Whether it’s ridiculous, stupid, and weird I can confidently say I’ve done it even it didn’t made a cut to my own goals.

Catch my drift? :wink:


No offense taken whatsoever! :) Yep, I got your drift and I respect your opinion and point of view!

TRY…EXPERIMENT…LISTEN…AND LEARN….MAYBE SHARE YOUR FINDINGS AND EXPERIENCE.


I'll do exactly like that. Keep posting, the more the merrier!

Cheers!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:29 pm
by sinar
my comment on this line "My point is that PRAT is a STATE OF MIND. Its definition is to one's personal preference. To each his own! Nothing more nothing less." is that from my experieince of hearing and owning different systems, it's either your system have it or not (PRAT). its not a play of someone's state of mind.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:38 pm
by sinar
oh and another thing. pls don't get confused with the real meaning of PRAT as to the total tonality of the system

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:13 pm
by vintage_dog
sinar wrote:my comment on this line "My point is that PRAT is a STATE OF MIND. Its definition is to one's personal preference. To each his own! Nothing more nothing less." is that from my experieince of hearing and owning different systems, it's either your system have it or not (PRAT). its not a play of someone's state of mind.


AMEN. i agree with sinar on this one

:)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:25 pm
by Doc Jr 8156
So what is the meaning of PRAt sinar? Can you explain it? How can you tell if your system have it, can we quantify or qualify? What are the parameters to have pace, rhythm and timing then? What How do you confuse it with tonality? Do you need to own and hear 30 plus system to say that yours have PRAT? Is it possible that PRAT to you is not PRAT to me or anyone else? Is it then a state of mind or not? There is no final definition for PRAT whether we like it or not. We can debate this till oblivion and we won't agree . Lets just talk about who has the best religion, shall we? Godspeed.