Who do you believe???

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Who do you believe???

Postby jo2 » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:31 pm

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Postby Doc Jr 8156 » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:36 am

Jo2,
Nice article. This will ruffle some feathers definitely. Put your asbestos jackets on and get ready for the incoming flames. Ha..ha...ha..ha! Godspeeed.
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Postby jo2 » Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:54 am

Doc Jr 8156,

Thanks!

Not here to wage WAR or to forced personal beliefs and ideology but to EDUCATE others from making MISTAKES which most of us we've been too.

No amount of preaching and ranting about AUDIO can make one HARDCORE to twist and bend his/her personal preference/s.

BUT

We are here to SHARE and LEARN experience you and I ( and others) had to trek to our own definition of Sonic Nirvana.

In the end, it'll be an expensive path to which we all go through....... :wink:

Cheers!
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Postby amandarae » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:38 am

Ahhh, Now we're talking about PRAT or at least we're trying to. It is elusive no doubt, but subjective or exclusive also depending on the circumstances or lack there of. Like my grade two teacher said: A person seeking PRAT is like a dragon swallowing its own tail. It's giving him sustenance to be alive and strong but at the same time destroying him.

Okay,okay, that maybe too deep! You know, I never had a chance to ask my teacher what does that really means. But my point is that trying to figure out Prat is like saying " Is the ocean wet?" If you try to chase what other people's definition of PRAT is, it will destroy you and your wallet and not necessarily in that order.

After listening to your system (sans new upgrades) and at the end of a track you feel you want to cry with joy and the only thing that stops you from clapping and shouting exuberantly is your better half so as not to think that you are loosing your insanity. That could be PRAT!

When you are Pacing yourself on the room overlooking the window watching the road for the UPS truck to come humming in a reckless Rythm, hoping that your Timing will be flawless in sneaking your new toy inside the house so that your wife will not see it, that can also be PRAT!

My conclusion, there is no concrete description or explanation of PRAT! It is an acronym coined by an egoist to claim: " Mine is better than yours!"

So it seems that PRAT is not a measurement nor it is a scale. It is however a state of mind.

Then again, I could be wrong.


Chill!
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Postby JackD201 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:49 am

I have a simple prat test that works for me everytime. If I tap my toes there's prat. If I tap my toes and bite my lip and just keep from outright dancing by myself there's PRAT. It ain't the definition guys it's the feeling! :) Either the music moves you or it doesn't. Simple enough I think.
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Postby ichabod » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:04 am

Good morning! Nice way of putting it. Why should it be anything too high fallutin?

"Feelings?" Yes, if it pulls my hearstrings! That's PRAT indeed!
Last edited by ichabod on Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dogears » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:47 am

I definitely agree with the last paragraph of the article :)
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Postby jo2 » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:09 pm

amandarae,

Hmmm….

Like my grade two teacher said: A person seeking PRAT is like a dragon swallowing its own tail. It's giving him sustenance to be alive and strong but at the same time destroying him.


36 summers long!


See if I get this right.

At GRADE TWO you must be 7-8 years old……..

At 2004, you’re 36 years old….

Right ??

Are you saying:

1. the term “PRAT” (pace, rhythm & timing) was already existent back then? Circa 1974-75?
2. You’re Grade TWO teacher was (is) an Audiophile?
3. That saying, “A person seeking PRAT is like a dragon swallowing its own tail. It's giving him sustenance to be alive and strong but at the same time destroying him.” Was a LIE and you just made it up!


Hmmm….. :roll:

Sorry but I’m not buying this! :? :?

Could you please enlighten me?

Please reply and support you’re answers.
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Postby amandarae » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:08 am

Jo2,

He,he,he! Where's your sense of humor? I am just speaking out of context there, so lighten up!

My point is that PRAT is a STATE OF MIND. Its definition is to one's personal preference. To each his own! Nothing more nothing less.

My apologies to those I confused from my post!

Happy holidays!

Cheers!
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Postby JackD201 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:50 am

It's getting hot in here. Whew.

Aren't there days when you just can't seem to find your rythm? You can't make a good golf swing, sink a free throw, whatever. Aren't there days when no matter how hard you try your system just doesn't sound right? Days you spend hours trying to tweak and go to bed exasperated? Has it ever happened to you that the very next evening after a hard day of fulfilling work you plunk down in your chair and voila! Everthing is perfect? This happens to all of us in the hobby. As a techie, I understand the science. I was trained to sniff out audible problems and solve them but you know what? When it comes to listening for pleasure I have to UN-Train myself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we, yup ourselves, are the only real roadblock to what Jo2 refers to Sonic Nirvana. Many members here have found happiness in their systems wether humble or extravagant I think because they've accepted the fact that those systems will never be perfect but recognize that they get the important things right. Some of them might not be able to tell the difference between groove echo and recorded roomtone but hey while we try to explore every circuit, every theory they're out there enjoying. Lighten up guys. PRAT? Jeez! It's just a term coined by some reviewer, who may actually have been stoned while hammering on his Ollivetti. We'll never know. I call it boogie factor. You can call it whatever you like. I hate to be preachy but there's no greater waste of energy than cynicism. Cynicism is a sign that you're too chicken to make a mistake and not big enough to accept it. Cynics have the hardest time accepting new paradigms (e.g. the earth is round), almost always end up bitter, lonely and suicidal and almost always end up contributing nothing but criticism. How can you tell somebody is a cynic? Cynics always want to be convinced by someone else.
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Postby JackD201 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:58 am

Oh yeah. How can you tell if someone is a sucker? A sucker lets other people decide a purely personal choice.

Get the info. Make up your own mind. You'll have no one to blame. You WILL be happy with your choices.
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Postby hein » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:27 am

HAHAHA, Way to go, JAKD! Finally, an audiophile with BALLS! :D
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Postby amandarae » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:57 am

JackD201 wrote:It's getting hot in here. Whew.

Aren't there days when you just can't seem to find your rythm? You can't make a good golf swing, sink a free throw, whatever. Aren't there days when no matter how hard you try your system just doesn't sound right? Days you spend hours trying to tweak and go to bed exasperated? Has it ever happened to you that the very next evening after a hard day of fulfilling work you plunk down in your chair and voila! Everthing is perfect? This happens to all of us in the hobby. As a techie, I understand the science. I was trained to sniff out audible problems and solve them but you know what? When it comes to listening for pleasure I have to UN-Train myself. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we, yup ourselves, are the only real roadblock to what Jo2 refers to Sonic Nirvana. Many members here have found happiness in their systems wether humble or extravagant I think because they've accepted the fact that those systems will never be perfect but recognize that they get the important things right. Some of them might not be able to tell the difference between groove echo and recorded roomtone but hey while we try to explore every circuit, every theory they're out there enjoying. Lighten up guys. PRAT? Jeez! It's just a term coined by some reviewer, who may actually have been stoned while hammering on his Ollivetti. We'll never know. I call it boogie factor. You can call it whatever you like. I hate to be preachy but there's no greater waste of energy than cynicism. Cynicism is a sign that you're too chicken to make a mistake and not big enough to accept it. Cynics have the hardest time accepting new paradigms (e.g. the earth is round), almost always end up bitter, lonely and suicidal and almost always end up contributing nothing but criticism. How can you tell somebody is a cynic? Cynics always want to be convinced by someone else.


Point very well taken!

Never meant to insinuate anything out of the thread. I am cool!
Life goes on!

cheers!
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Postby Doc Jr 8156 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:28 am

ARAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY! Godspeed.
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Postby jo2 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:46 am

amandarae,

I didn’t upset you, did I? I wasn’t having a go on you. I know you’re a sport. :)

You know that we RESPECT and VALUE each other’s opinion from other FORUMS outside WS.

I believe whatever and whichever PATH we take towards obtaining our Audio Bliss is a matter of personal preference.

I didn’t stop there!

I want to explore on what else is out there!

And maybe SHARE and EDUCATE the others.

Whether it’s ridiculous, stupid, and weird I can confidently say I’ve done it even it didn’t made a cut to my own goals.

TRY…EXPERIMENT…LISTEN…AND LEARN….MAYBE SHARE YOUR FINDINGS AND EXPERIENCE.

Catch my drift? :wink:
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Postby amandarae » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:16 am

jo2 wrote:amandarae,

I didn’t upset you, did I? I wasn’t having a go on you. I know you’re a sport. :)

You know that we RESPECT and VALUE each other’s opinion from other FORUMS outside WS.

I believe whatever and whichever PATH we take towards obtaining our Audio Bliss is a matter of personal preference.

I didn’t stop there!

I want to explore on what else is out there!

And maybe SHARE and EDUCATE the others.

Whether it’s ridiculous, stupid, and weird I can confidently say I’ve done it even it didn’t made a cut to my own goals.

Catch my drift? :wink:


No offense taken whatsoever! :) Yep, I got your drift and I respect your opinion and point of view!

TRY…EXPERIMENT…LISTEN…AND LEARN….MAYBE SHARE YOUR FINDINGS AND EXPERIENCE.


I'll do exactly like that. Keep posting, the more the merrier!

Cheers!
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Postby sinar » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:29 pm

my comment on this line "My point is that PRAT is a STATE OF MIND. Its definition is to one's personal preference. To each his own! Nothing more nothing less." is that from my experieince of hearing and owning different systems, it's either your system have it or not (PRAT). its not a play of someone's state of mind.
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Postby sinar » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:38 pm

oh and another thing. pls don't get confused with the real meaning of PRAT as to the total tonality of the system
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Postby vintage_dog » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:13 pm

sinar wrote:my comment on this line "My point is that PRAT is a STATE OF MIND. Its definition is to one's personal preference. To each his own! Nothing more nothing less." is that from my experieince of hearing and owning different systems, it's either your system have it or not (PRAT). its not a play of someone's state of mind.


AMEN. i agree with sinar on this one

:)
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Postby Doc Jr 8156 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:25 pm

So what is the meaning of PRAt sinar? Can you explain it? How can you tell if your system have it, can we quantify or qualify? What are the parameters to have pace, rhythm and timing then? What How do you confuse it with tonality? Do you need to own and hear 30 plus system to say that yours have PRAT? Is it possible that PRAT to you is not PRAT to me or anyone else? Is it then a state of mind or not? There is no final definition for PRAT whether we like it or not. We can debate this till oblivion and we won't agree . Lets just talk about who has the best religion, shall we? Godspeed.
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