advise on toy tower

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advise on toy tower

Postby kolabear » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:45 pm

i need some advise from all the masters out there. my current system consists of primare A20 amp, cdp primare d20 and i jst got the entry level sonus faber toy tower speakers. m using analysis pus oval 12 speaker cables and MIT terminator 2 IC. my happy with the mids and vocals bt i feel the highs are rollling off. its kinda too laid back. maybe its because of the primare amp since sonus is also laid back. my living area is 29 feet by 10 feet. i m placing my system facing the 10 feet wall. the right speaker is 6 fr the balcony glass door and the left speaker is ard 14 feet from the entrance door. they are about 1.5 feet from the wall. and 6 feet apart. my listening position is ard 7 feet fr speakers. will a change of amp help.m currently looking into 2 pre power combos. Naim Pre NAC112 & Power AMP NAP 150 with
Flat CAP, the other is Plinius CD.LAD preamplifier / 8200P power amplifier. which is a better choice for the toy tower? any input is greatly appreciated. thank you.
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby rtsyrtsy » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:12 am

I've not heard the newer Sonus Fabers but having lived with 2 of Franco Serblin's creations for about a decade, what I can share is that I had great success pairing my Concertino and Signums with:

-Pass Aleph and Analysis Plus Oval 12
-Conrad Johnson and Kondo KSL-SPc

I'm not familiar with Primare so I can't comment on whether or not they mate well with the SF's.

I've auditioned my SFs with numerous amps from S/S (Classe, Hafler) to tubes (ST70, vintage EL34s, etc.). I like SF best with tubes.

Rolled off highs even on Analysis Plus? I've never really liked the networked cables like MIT / Transparent with SFs. I like 'em with B&Ws.
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby JoeyGS » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:07 pm

Based on my experience......I once had my system in our living room for several years and with so much tweaking I still have not fleshed out the dynamics and extension of my system. I even blamed the components for not having the sound I was wanting. Then comes when my wife ejected me from the living room and built our own music room. And lo and behold....the same system was entirely different. Especially when I placed the bass traps and the some early reflection diffusors, the system became transparent. All the missing highs and lows came out.

Lesson: look at your room acoustics, it's 50% of the system performance.

In my opinion, sonus is not laid back or rolled off on the highs. Sonus give very sweet highs and extended.

Hope the above helps
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby koi » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:42 pm

SF speakers want space away from the walls to be able to breathe. I suggest that you place them at least 0.8 meters from the side walls and the front walls.
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby randybarba » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:24 am

I've heard the sonus toy towers at Elmo's shop at mcs and they weren't rolled off. In fact, the highs were open and detailed. They were driven by a Modwright pre-power combo. I also heard a sonus domus floorstander driven by a primare amp and it wasn't rolled off either. It could be your MIT cables. From my experience with them, MIT's sound "mataba" but with a little bit of treble roll off and are best paired with systems on the lean, bright side. Try changing your MIT's first as this would be less costly than changing your amps. A lot of dealers are willing to let cables be auditioned at home. Try Epoy's Audience or Keith's Townshends.
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby JackD201 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:34 pm

I'd follow Koi's advice and bring them out further into the room. This will drop your midbass boundary reinforcement by a little bit making the highs a bit more prominent. I would also suggest a Hyperion style adjustment. You've got a lot of lateral space so experiment with it. Try moving your speakers another foot or two apart and toe in more aggressively. By that I mean having just a bit of the inner cabinet walls visible or even having the tweeters pointed right at you. Enjoy!

Oh BTW in a stay at Bella Rocca where the villa was set up with SFs and Primares the sound was clear yet sweet. I wouldn't blame the combination. The NAIMs are gems too though, quick, punchy and fun where the Primares are should I say alluring. In the end you can't go wrong with either, it's just a matter of taste :)
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby kolabear » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:05 am

hi guys
thanks for all the wonderful advise.i am still not back to my place. will try all the ideas here once i get back esp on moving the speakers forward and changing of ICs. will post my result once i get back, one more question. how long do i need to break in the speakers and is there a max limit to the volume before the break in period. someone told me not to play too loud before the break in period. all my previous speakers has been used items. this is my first new pair of speakers.thank you.
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby JackD201 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:32 am

You should play them fairly loud but not so loud that you are anywhere near distortion. If you have an SPL meter 60dB should be pretty much the max, especially if you'll be leaving them unattended during the process. Your manual should tell you the break-in time. If not, being a compact, I'd think 100hrs is more than enough. 50 hours will probably get you more than 90% there. Congratulations on your new speakers kolabear!
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby mullard88 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:36 am

If I may chime in, I have a pair of Sonus Faber Guarneri. My experience with them is that they prefer the longer wall to the shorter wall. They sound even and create a soundstage at a comfortable distance from the listeners as long as there is lots of space between the speakers and the side walls. The distance from the back wall is not that sensitive as my speakers are only about a foot from the back wall. I have them firing straight ahead with no toe in at all. I do not know how similar the Guarneri and the Toy are to each other but I am just giving this a stab as they are both the same brand. As for MIT cables, I am a very long time user, I have used them ever since Bruce broke away from Noel and started MIT cables. I have used them with all kinds of amplifiers from the darker colored ones to the lighter colored ones and I have not experienced any problems with the high frequencies.
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby egay » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:35 am

kolabear wrote:i need some advise from all the masters out there. my current system consists of primare A20 amp, cdp primare d20 and i jst got the entry level sonus faber toy tower speakers. m using analysis pus oval 12 speaker cables and MIT terminator 2 IC. my happy with the mids and vocals bt i feel the highs are rollling off. its kinda too laid back. maybe its because of the primare amp since sonus is also laid back. my living area is 29 feet by 10 feet. i m placing my system facing the 10 feet wall. the right speaker is 6 fr the balcony glass door and the left speaker is ard 14 feet from the entrance door. they are about 1.5 feet from the wall. and 6 feet apart. my listening position is ard 7 feet fr speakers. will a change of amp help.m currently looking into 2 pre power combos. Naim Pre NAC112 & Power AMP NAP 150 with
Flat CAP, the other is Plinius CD.LAD preamplifier / 8200P power amplifier. which is a better choice for the toy tower? any input is greatly appreciated. thank you.


This looks like an equipment recital, thus it appears to me that your primary problem is your lact of commitment or confident relationship with them.
Stay cool by staying hot with what you have and stay away from the endless loop of "upgrading" which may actually degrade your experience if not properly done.

My SF Concerto Domus had experienced several amplifier-preamp combos over the last 4 years and a fair share of placements - from a 'relatively' cramped living room in a condo where they are simply 18in from the backwalls, to my present listening room that is roughly around your floor area but in an attic which also doubles as my office and as a multi-purpose room at times.

My point is this: you have a collection of respectable equipment so start with them.

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=96
this links to the technical archives, specifically speaker placements, that has really helped me a lot to understand what I have; and i am sure this will help you, too. The ISOSCELES TRIANGLE Method is the basic, I belive, but in combo with those mentioned in the link and you'd be surprised that you could be missing a lot by just doing random placement (more-or-less).

There is a placement method where your speakers' interaction with the boundaries become almost nil: follow the recommendations in the link.

While I agree that equipment synergy is absolutely important, one cannot determine this unless one tries the various permutations of ones equipment - in this case, placement.

Worry about replacements in some other time.

Then again it's your money.

So just enjoy :hai:

.e.
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Re: advise on toy tower

Postby kolabear » Sat May 21, 2011 8:41 pm

Sir egay, this for the link on speaker placements. I am trying it out.
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