If nothing, to exit.

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If nothing, to exit.

Postby ttommy » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:42 am

Our first winter blizzard and it's a roughie. Not much to do except stay indoors, catch up on post-Christmas cleaning and think about what to write as the aroma of pork and chicken adobo wafts through our small kitchen into the living room. "Hon," I ask Mrs Y, "should I write about just the new tube amps or how it feels like exiting the hobby?"

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"First, let's get things straight, you're not exiting the hobby." She answered, much to my dismay. I've always taken pride in my colegiala-grade passive aggression and had hoped to *project* to you, dear reader, that she twisted my arm to buy these amps. So here's the study of my failed manipulation.

Since I'd been working from home at least once a week these past few months, I'd setup my workstation in front of a mostly iTunes-driven stereo. Working and listening doesn't mix with me, however, as I get distracted if I like the music too much. So, I took out my old push-pull 300B amp, rationalizing that I didn't need that much power to play background music anyway, and started listening to music that doesn't distract much, e.g., jazz vocals. Then I started "noticing" that Mrs Y would hang out much more in the kitchen, listening with me, as I work. Heck, I'd even bought a Grant Fidelity tube buffer to A/B with her once even as she'd already professed her preference for tubes back when we were just dating. But, my subconscious plotted, she has to be "thoroughly convinced."

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Then again, I'm not so coarse to suggest that I baited the Mrs, knowing her preference for that warmer sound, especially since my birthday was approaching. Instead, I told her I had been up to some "tire kicking" in Agon, not knowing that this particular seller would further kamikaze his price. Imagine that! Who would've thought. (Btw, my acting was superb ;) ) And to top it all, let me sell stuff I don't use or need and I'll recoup the investment. "Whatever," she acquiesced, "how about I just buy them for you as a gift?"

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"Oh gosh, really? But... but..." You could almost hear my muffled protests even as I was wheeling these 90+lb (each) crates into the living room. So I took the time to edumacate my dear wife on the benefits of DHT-- how these 811A tubes in particular were transmitter-type tubes used in ham radio and sounded like her favorite 300Bs, albeit much more powerful, how this was the only amp monickered "Reference" in the manufacturer's lineup, and even got her to "proactively" interpret some Russian supplier websites so we won't run out of NOS Ryazan's... And to top it all off, the NAT Audio Generator's color scheme even matched our silver and black! Boy, was her excitement truly palpable! (Click below for bigger picture)

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The truth of the matter is, I had long been curious about this manufacturer. When it comes to tubes, I like the DHT variety, preferably with as little or no feedback applied. The good thing about the 811A (or its substitute the 572B) is that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Sonically, these amps have that openness I love from the midband on up (reminding me a little bit of Atmasphere), tonally convincing, but stopping short of SET-seductiveness. Compared to the MSB M200, it sounds slower/relaxed and a little soft on bass but then one doesn't apply the same listening mindset on both amps. Now, answer that age old question, which is better, solid-state or tubes? If you ask the Mrs, she'd say, all of the above! ;)

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The blizzard isn't letting up outside, subzero temperatures with howling 40 mph winds. Our adobo leftovers now tucked into the fridge. That warm glow. Life couldn't be so good!

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Thanks for reading.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby ambel » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:11 am

wow that's a beast. It reminded me of my Altec 1570B mono amps 811A in push pull mode cranking up 165 watts driving those
super inefficient 78 db Soundlab Pristines. Wonderful tubes i like those warm glows of Thoriated tungsten filament look for the
NOS RCA.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby keith » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:02 pm

Merry Xmas Tito and Mrs Y. Congratulations on the amps! Gwapo! Good to know you can stay warm and still enjoy the music.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby ttommy » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:06 pm

Thanks keith and guru ambel, I've yet to score a NOS quad, The manufacturer also advised me to find either RCA or GE but I'd be happy to try anything aside from the 14 Sino and Cetron these came shipped with. The Cetron's seem a little fragile-- two conked out, one anode cap came loose (can be epoxied back) so I'm prioritizing ruggedness for now.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby dimfer » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:04 pm

congrats...
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby conspicuous » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:28 pm

aside from the adobo, now that's something to drool for! :) pardon my ignorance ttommy but these are SETs that sound almost like push pull? :?: that is less lush but more detailed? i'm just trying to imagine the sound from other amps i've heard including 300B.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby ttommy » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:42 am

Thanks, dimfer, btw, hope to chat with you soon.

And sorry if I wasn't too clear, conspicuous, the Generator's specs are shown here. This amp is push-pull although from reading this review of another model from the same manufacturer, I won't be surprised if the output power rating for the generator was actually 35% lower, say, 110wpc @ 1% THD.

If I were to extrapolate impressions of this brand based on the reviews I've read and the amp I have, I imagine NAT doesn't go after a "house sound" nor chase that "sonic convergence" that one hears with most contemporary solid state and tube manufacturers. Instead, looking at their lineup of amplifiers including the Magma (250TH, also rated *very* generously I think) and the Transmitter (QB5/1750), I think the designer's likes to build an amp around a specific (exotic) tube.

Now as far as the 811A tube or, for that matter, any tube itself is concerned, assuming similar topologies, I believe that while there are common characteristics that might be heard across implementations of gain stages using a given tube, that personality changes depending on whether the stage is optimized for either linearity or maximum voltage swing at its operating point. The more a designer goes for the latter, the more imbalanced the positive and negative swings get, the more characteristic euphony. Or, put another way, while it's possible to have general impressions about how, say, 300Bs sound, much of what we hear are implementation-specific... and we're not even talking the interaction with the load itself. With that as qualifier, pardon my simplistic comparison to the 300B.

Sonically, this amp reminds me of a 300B in the midband, but much closer to a push pull sound than a SET. The presentation is slightly warm but compared to a SET, much less sweet. It doesn't sound seductive nor "push" detail so I can't say it betters a 300B SET in that regard. It does sound more extended and controlled on bass, even if it's not as articulate as a good solid-state amp (although here it's easy to say with higher impedance speakers, this won't be the case). I think it's fair to say this amp sounds like a high powered push-pull 300B.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby rtsyrtsy » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:35 am

Tito,

Been meaning to write you a Christmas & New Year greeting. But I've been caught in between cochinillo's here in Manila. ;-)

That is one fantastic way to stay warm through the blizzards.

Once more, you have set the benchmark really high for my own audio comeback!

Happy holidays!
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby ttommy » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:17 am

Happy Holidays to you too, Russ, and, btw, you had me at cuchinillo :D Remember when we went to Hill Country the last time and you said "may laban ang Pork belly sa kanilang moist brisket?" At the time I didn't agree but last week when Y and I had pork belly, perhaps it was the timing, they gave us some crispy skin. And tama ka, may laban nga!

Day two after the blizzard and the roads are still barely serviceable. I'd have taken the subway but look at this mountain we gotta scale!

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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby dimfer » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:20 am

after seeing the picture, now I don't feel bad shovelling what I had to here in Edmonton.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby conspicuous » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:26 am

ttommy wrote:...I think it's fair to say this amp sounds like a high powered push-pull 300B.


ttommy, for some strange reason i seem to get this! thanks a lot for the explanation and for forwarding on the specs :) i was in norwalk, ct in late november. good thing there wasn't snow yet! my tropical blood wasn't ready for it yet without proper acclimatisation. :D
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby jadis » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:59 am

Happy New Year, Tito. What a beautiful sight to see your gears set up again. :)
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby mullard88 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:12 pm

Hi ttommy,

It's been a long time since I last read a post from you. Happy new year to you and your wife. Enjoy the season and the music.
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby audiostar » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:48 pm

Congrats Tito. May you and Ms Y enjoy the holidays and may you be blessed more this coming year :)
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Re: If nothing, to exit.

Postby ttommy » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:05 pm

Thank you, Val, Philip, conspicuous and mullard. Happy New Year to you all! Sammy, I remember you saying-- don't sell your gear, keep them around. It's been at least a couple years since I've had proper tube amps in my system. In hindsight, I should've just put some in storage rather than dispose of them. conspicuous, I'd missed meeting some fellow wirestaters too--merlin and OD Yeo, when they were here this year. Hopefully next time, we can meet. Just PM anytime. I don't work in the city anymore so it's a little bit tricky to meet during the week but Russell knows the secret to get me to Manhattan :)
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