Hopefully not Sayonara

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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby joe3rp » Tue May 12, 2009 9:28 pm

detubo wrote:i found it na. i'd like a santoku using hitachi stainless steel ZDP-189. pag pasyal niyo ni joey, pabalita how much it would cost :tmi:


Do you want me to buy it for you? Your credit is good!
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Tue May 12, 2009 10:52 pm

joe3rp wrote:
detubo wrote:i found it na. i'd like a santoku using hitachi stainless steel ZDP-189. pag pasyal niyo ni joey, pabalita how much it would cost :tmi:


Do you want me to buy it for you? Your credit is good!


Too bad, they'd sold out at JCK--

Image.

Tonyboy, I'll take Joey to Korin tomorrow. If you'd like to check what they have available, please click hereand search for Santoku. Joey, okay ba sa 'yo? Instead of 14th st/Old Homestead, wanna head downtown to Warren St near Canal?
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Tue May 12, 2009 11:29 pm

Apparently Miss Y is more familiar with the ZDP, she just forwarded me this link--

zdp-189 vs Cowry X vs VG-10
Just like ATS-34 and 154 CM were the vogue of the nineties, VG-10 has now become the dominant steel in fine knives and for good reason. It is harder than ATS-34, more stain resistant, arguably tougher, has better edge retention and it is relatively cheap -- cheap enough that you can get $60 knives made out of it anyway.

But, recently the super steel focus has shifted to the enigmatic zdp-189. This Hitachi product is a truly ground breaking steel. The 3% carbon content and the ability to be hardened to RC 67 or 68 makes it incredibly hard and capable of rendering incredibly sharp edges. For comparison, "Normal" 440 stainless is about 56, ATS-34 is 59 and VG-10 is 61-62. ZDp-189 is up there with non-stainless crucible super steels like CPM-15V in terms of hardness! Normally, steel this hard will be very brittle and prone to chipping, but that is not so with Zdp-189. Why it is able to be hard and tough at the same time is probably the biggest mystery surrounding ZDp-189. Normally high carbon steel is also very low on chromium meaning they are not stainless at all. But Zdp-189 is 20% chromium - higher than even 440C stainless (16-18%)! So yes, it is a stainless steel!

Zdp-189 is however very hard to come by. Not only is it expensive, Hitachi is not selling it to anyone. Only a select group of manufacturers are allowed access to it. To the best of my knowledge, they are all Japanese at this point. These manufactuerers are also the ONLY ones allowed to heat treat it -- leading to the speculation that a lot of the secrets behind its performance is related to not just its composition but how its heat treatment has to be handled. This remains a closely guarded secret by Hitachi and by their close circle of select manufactuerers.

Anyway, recently Daido Corporation came out with its own copy of Zdp-189. They call it Crowy X. It also has 3% Carbon and 20% Chromium, but its other compositions supposedly differs from Zdp-189. Neither manufactuer has been forthcoming as to what exactly goes into their supersteels so this is impossible to verify at this point. Crowy X is no cheaper, but at least Daido is a lot more liberal about who is allowed to buy it directly and work it. A RC hardness of 67 is claimed for Crowy X.


I wonder how she knew about this, probably she's considering a Cowry Hattori, hmm? :wasntme:
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Tue May 12, 2009 11:58 pm

ttommy wrote:
joe3rp wrote:
detubo wrote:i found it na. i'd like a santoku using hitachi stainless steel ZDP-189. pag pasyal niyo ni joey, pabalita how much it would cost :tmi:


Do you want me to buy it for you? Your credit is good!


Too bad, they'd sold out at JCK--

Image.

Tonyboy, I'll take Joey to Korin tomorrow. If you'd like to check what they have available, please click hereand search for Santoku. Joey, okay ba sa 'yo? Instead of 14th st/Old Homestead, wanna head downtown to Warren St near Canal?


hey if joey can get me a GEKKO GE-2 190mm santoku (Black Pakka Wood Handle) for $98 game ako
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Wed May 13, 2009 12:20 am

detubo wrote:hey if joey can get me a GEKKO GE-2 190mm santoku (Black Pakka Wood Handle) for $98 game ako

Sorry for the confusion, Tonyboy, the Gekko's are available online from JapaneseChefsKnife.com (JCK). They ship directly from Japan and get here within 3 days. Although I had ordered a Santoku for my brother-in-law in Oregon and it hasn't gotten to him yet (stuck in customs for 5 days).

The store I'll take Joey to is Korin which is probably the best Japanese knife store in the US. The carry some brands that JCK also carries, e.g. Masamoto, Hattori, but they won't have those Gekkos. We can find you a good stainless/damascus VG10, etc, in the same price range. Korin carries Togiharu, Misono Masanobu and Nenox Santokus, I believe. Better yet, tomorrow I can take pictures and post it here.
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Wed May 13, 2009 8:34 am

game! A vg10 7" damascus santoku for $100 or better ( Baka may sale). Tell him I'll use it to slice the 28 day dry age ribeye I'll be serving him
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Wed May 13, 2009 9:01 am

Hey if joey can get a non Damascus vg10 santoku for $70 or less deh yan nalang. In cooking its the indian and not the arrow. 30 bucks will get a lot of meat too
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Wed May 13, 2009 10:38 am

Let's narrow your choices to what might be available at Korin ("might" kasi it may be out of stock). Items below sorted lowest to highest price between $55-$110. Click picture for more information:

Togiharu Molybdenum - $55
Image

Brieto - $78
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Togiharu Inox Steel - $79
Image

Misono Molybdenum - $84
Image

Togiharu Hammered Texture Damascus - $96
Image

Misono 440 Molybdenum - $100
Image

Togiharu Cobalt Damascus - $110
Image

If I had to pick three from this lot, it would either be the Togiharu Inox @ $79, the Togiharu Hammered Texture Damascus @ $96 or the Togiharu Cobalt Damascus @ 110 8) If all three were available from Korin, I'd buy the Hammered Texture Damascus followed by the Cobalt Damascus, then the Inox.
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Wed May 13, 2009 3:10 pm

the selection you gave me are not v10 steel. the gekko is starting to look like a good deal. in that case pass muna. i'll maybe try to get a gekko or zdp-189 later. just in case though a v10 steel santoku is on sale at korin for less than $80 then tell joey to get it na. thanks guys.
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby pigdog » Thu May 14, 2009 1:12 pm

i have to postpone my nyc trip to mid june as hk health officials are still over reacting with the swine flu scare here. will be in nyc around june 8 onwards
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Fri May 15, 2009 12:41 pm

No worries, Ches, we'll have fun when you get here ;)
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby pigdog » Fri May 15, 2009 12:48 pm

ttommy wrote:No worries, Ches, we'll have fun when you get here ;)

lets "do" lunch or dinner with sushi!
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:22 pm

Among knifemakers in Japan, Keijiro Doi is widely regarded as the best. He also might be the oldest active master blacksmith--

Image

Korin recently carried Doi's 80th birthday limited edition Hayate yanagibas. There were only twenty made-- 5 blue steel, japanese handle; 5 white steel japanese handle; 5 blue steel western handle; 5 white steel western handle. The most desirable of this batch, the blue steel japanese handle, sold out within a day but amid all the hoopla, knife forum folks don't know who got serial #01 :)

Image

I'll use this knife just once.
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby rtsyrtsy » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:45 pm

A big congratulations to you and Miss Y indeed.

I'd enroll myself to a 12 month course in Japan to learn how to sharpen before even dare handle that!
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:24 pm

hey tommy i recently bought a kyocera ceramic santoku and small utility knife. i think every cooking afficionado should have at least a small ceramic utility knife. it really retains it sharpness and boy is it sharp. its great for making fine cuts with fruit, veggies and fish. of course you not suppose to use it against hard stuff like bone and frozen food. the kyocera distributor here in manila can have them sharpened for P500 inclusive of delivery which is great since you'll hardly need to do it anyways. what would be ideal is a ceramic sushi knife which coincidently kyocera sell for about $300++ in the US. price ain't ideal though :(
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:34 pm

detubo wrote:hey tommy i recently bought a kyocera ceramic santoku and small utility knife. i think every cooking afficionado should have at least a small ceramic utility knife. it really retains it sharpness and boy is it sharp. its great for making fine cuts with fruit, veggies and fish. of course you not suppose to use it against hard stuff like bone and frozen food. the kyocera distributor here in manila can have them sharpened for P500 inclusive of delivery which is great since you'll hardly need to do it anyways. what would be ideal is a ceramic sushi knife which coincidently kyocera sell for about $300++ in the US. price ain't ideal though :(

Congrats, Tonyboy, good choice! Personally, I don't mind the maintenance with carbon steel but only for yanagibas/slicers. For my other knives, I wouldn't mind if they're stainless or ceramic. Btw, JCK announced a line of Damascus ZDP-189 knives, a bit pricey though (see here). I'd consider them but don't like that handle profile at all
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:18 pm

saw the site. a bit too much. i'll settle for a damascus vg-10
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby pigdog » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:26 am

SO... DETOOBS! when do we get to experience your culinary skill? ;)
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:06 am

you have a open invitation. Just give me a
week notice
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:23 am

Ches, since you're already in this thread, and you'll be in Japan in a few months, might as well point out one particular knife-- Tsukiji Masamoto, located near the Tsukiji Market. I visited their NYC dealer, Japanese Culinary Center (JCC), and took this video that towards the end their pricelist (picture here). Note the price for their top yanagi (sashimi knife) is ~$2.5K USD.

Then click here to have Google translate the manufacturer's online store. Note the same knife, the non-mirror polish 330mm honyaki yanagiba shown on top is listed at around 106,000 yen, working out to around $1.2K USD. This is the same knife sold by JCC for $2.5K!

We could go down the list and compare but the point is, the NY dealer sells at over 100% markup just because you can't buy this brand anywhere else (well, NYCMTC and NA Sales are both co-distributors of Tsukiji Masamoto but I bet they've set their prices to be similar).

So, wanna do a side business? ;)
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