Hopefully not Sayonara

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Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Mon May 11, 2009 12:59 pm

It's one of those things I never expected, Audio has slipped to #3 mistress status behind playing music and a new hobby I picked up. I feel bad writing this somehow because Audio has been the hobby through which we all bonded and those of you I've met (and some I haven't) I consider good friends. But this isn't a post about parting, but rather, about sharing :) So let me tell you a little, long-winded story.

My hobbies had always been narrow and very focused, since coming to the US, I'd picked up military watch collecting and specialized just on one "variant"-- post WW2, center-seconds navigator's watches issued to the RAF/RAAF. After I completed that series, I decided to immediately drop the hobby, having reached my own "finish line." Audio followed soon afterwards but I didn't think it'd have a finish line, instead, I knew sooner or later, I'd go back to playing. I'd written in this thread how, late last year, I'd found the desire to play guitar again. But instead of classical, I thought maybe I'd get back to jazz, since it was an archtop that gave back that "spark." Eventually, I decided to commission a guitar and study with a local teacher which I continue to do so, once a week, to this day. Getting back to the guitar caused Audio to slip to #2 and I found myself surfing Audiogon less and less, although I still read Wiredstate regularly.

Then a month or so ago, miss Y and I thought, since we're to attend my sister's wedding in Texas, with me giving her away no less, I'd better fit into the barong she bought for me! :lol: Naturally, we thought of dieting and since miss Y was fond of sushi, I decided to take up the challenge and learn how to do it--



In that video, you'll hear me saying that the "short" sashimi/yanagiba knife I was using was insufficient-- basically, I found out that you need a longer knife to be able to cut the fish using one stroke. And just like that, boom, I'm into knives. I'd collected some "practical" knives back in the Philippines but this was the first time that the cooking hobby had intersected with it. To put it bluntly, I got in deep. It also wasn't particularly helpful that miss Y also enjoys using the knives herself :lol: So far, here's our "basic" knife set, L-R: a JCK Gekko Santoku, my "starter" Tomotsugu yanagiba, miss Y's Hattori petty, a Mizuno paring, miss Y's Hattor petty #2, a Masahiro cleaver, a Shiki Gyuto and the only non-Japanese, a German-made Gude, considered the "holy-grail" of bread knives--

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That said, it's really the yanagibas that do it for me. Before we go further, here's japanese knives in a nutshell: there's blue steel (ao-ko) and white-steel (shiro-ko), three grades: honyaki - highest, kasumi (lowest), hongasumi or hon kasumi (medium) and one implementation of the hongasumi-- the sumigashi (damascus). Then theres the three most common lengths of the yanagiba blade-- 270mm, 300mm, 330mm. Then, there are the marquee brands which, like watches, have their fanatics. Sharpening/honing one studies separately.

But it wasn't until I found out that perhaps the best Japanese knife store in the US, Korin, is just a 5 minute subway hop away that I realized I was truly f*cked. So here we go with my yanagiba collection so far-- first, a 270mm Masamoto Hassouchi. Masamoto is recognized as the #1 brand in the same way that some audiophiles would say McIntosh is the #1 brand. As such, it has its fair share of detractors but I found myself drawn to this Hassouchi. This was my first serious yanagiba.

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Then I lucked out and found what might be the most elusive brand-- Tokifusa Iizuka of Shigefusa's claim to fame is that perhaps he's the only master smith left in Japan who does everything entirely by hand, without the help of automated/mechanical hammers. As such, the waiting list on his knives tend to be years. I was lucky enough to find the only 300mm seen "in the wild" for quite some time.

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Then I decided to try out a Kiritsuke, which is kinda like a cross between a yanagi and a cleaver. Below we have this 270mm Aritsugu which I'm returning soon because of something its dealer didn't disclose.

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One I just got today, my first honyaki, a shiro-ko Ittosai Kotetsu in 330mm. A lesser known brand but the build quality is excellent (check out those hamon lines!), comparable to the very best brands like Nenohi or Suisin. Basically, in this hobby, you'd like to have a good representation of all the master smiths from those houses. Hopefully soon, I'd land my first Doi (Suisin).

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The "slicers," top to bottom: Ittosai 330mm, Shigefusa 300mm, Masamoto 270mm, Aritsugu 270mm.

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It would seem sushi-making...

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Provides this knifenut a perfect excuse :)

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Nowadays, you'll find me hanging out at Knifeforums (handle: bokkers). We'd just had our East Coast Gathering party at Korin last Friday and I'd posted a bunch of videos here.

So, while I don't think this is Sayonara, I hope you'll understand if I'm seen less often around here. Question is-- in audio we often say: it's about the music... in this other hobby, I'd agree peacefully, it's all about the sushi alright *wink* *wink*

Thanks for reading!
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby Jon Agner » Mon May 11, 2009 1:12 pm

Nice write up Tito :) I have to let my wife read this, as she is very much picky of the knives she wants to use for preparing the dishes :) ..... I just hope that you won't be focusing on "throwing knives" :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby keith » Mon May 11, 2009 1:21 pm

As always, a great read Tito.

My younger bro of Razorback fame is a chef wannabe and he's been going crazy for knives of late. I hate having him over in my kitchen, as he just trashes my knives saying they lack sharpness and balance. ;(

Since he finished his course, I've stopped arguing with him about food and how to cook. Wala na, hindi na ako maka bola. :D
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ESaudio » Mon May 11, 2009 1:40 pm

A very intriguing and knifetwisting read Tito!

From what i've read, hindi naman pala magkalayo yung new hobby mo being a knifenut to being an audionut. Precision is the key! Ingat ka lang, pag nabasa 'tong thread mo from the Central Command, baka ma recruit ka ng Yakuza. With my initial journey into the dark side, myembro na rin ako ng Takusa! :D

My best regards also to Ms Y!
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby rtsyrtsy » Mon May 11, 2009 2:38 pm

Never a dull moment, huh? :D

If you ever go to Russia via Dubai, you're welcome to stay in my place but you'll have to live with my only set of knives...from Ikea. :puke:
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Mon May 11, 2009 2:49 pm

great read. i too went gaga over cooking knives but not as detailed. my only wish is to have a damascus blade santoku and sushi knife. i'll make it a point to visit "Korin" next time i find my self in the big city
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby dante » Mon May 11, 2009 3:48 pm

Tito, when you get into a hobby, you really pull out all the stops huh? ;) I envy your passion Bro. And I can understand your fascination for knives even if my interest in it gets expressed only along the commercial cheap Santokus made by Global. Wow! I hope you still write your non-audio pieces here on WS. We all benefit from your insight.
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Tue May 12, 2009 12:50 am

Thanks guys, from your responses there seems to be some interest so please feel free to PM--- if you have questions, I'd gladly sulsul in this hobby as well :lol:

Jon Agner wrote:Nice write up Tito :) I have to let my wife read this, as she is very much picky of the knives she wants to use for preparing the dishes :) ..... I just hope that you won't be focusing on "throwing knives" :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:


Here's a better article specifically on Japanese "bocho". That's Keijiro Doi who builds for Suisin in the picture. There are only a handful of these septua/octo-generians master smiths left and perhaps Doi is the most popular. The general idea is that Japanese knives are shaper, hold their edge longer (kirenaga) than Western knives. The downside is that the best ones need more care as they use carbon steel (not stainless). The middle ground is where you have VG-10 and Inox which might be considered "rust resistant." Still, after using a good Japanese knife it's hard to go back to Western :)

That said, the Japanese manufacturers also make "western-handled" versions of their knives, in case that's your preference, instead of the traditional "wa" handle. Knifenuts also can customize their handles, e.g via Stefan Keller although his production is quite limited (there should be a nice market here for some master woodworkers here ;).

keith wrote:As always, a great read Tito.

My younger bro of Razorback fame is a chef wannabe and he's been going crazy for knives of late. I hate having him over in my kitchen, as he just trashes my knives saying they lack sharpness and balance. ;(

Since he finished his course, I've stopped arguing with him about food and how to cook. Wala na, hindi na ako maka bola. :D


Thanks Keith. If Kev's interested, I have a documentary and sharpening video here. Might take a while to download as it's over 500MB but he'll enjoy it :)

ESaudio wrote:A very intriguing and knifetwisting read Tito!

From what i've read, hindi naman pala magkalayo yung new hobby mo being a knifenut to being an audionut. Precision is the key! Ingat ka lang, pag nabasa 'tong thread mo from the Central Command, baka ma recruit ka ng Yakuza. With my initial journey into the dark side, myembro na rin ako ng Takusa! :D

My best regards also to Ms Y!

Thanks, Atty, matagal na ako'ng na recruit ng Yakuza :lol: But you're right, "precision is the key", or as my guitar teacher would say-- you must be some kind of masochist to put your fingers near those knives... well, she really didn't say that but she thought it ;)

rtsyrtsy wrote:Never a dull moment, huh? :D
If you ever go to Russia via Dubai, you're welcome to stay in my place but you'll have to live with my only set of knives...from Ikea. :puke:

Russ, I'd love to cook for you someday, anywhere. But then, I'm always outshined by Miss Y :lol: Last Saturday, we made dinner for my buddy Jesse and his wife Cathy. I did the middle/main course (sushi/sashimi) and she did the appetizer (butakakuni) and dessert (durian gelato). Wala, talo sa durian gelato, according to Jesse-- I won the middle rounds but, in the end, got knocked out :lol: Here's a video of miss Y making the ice cream, just remember to click HD to see the better version.

detubo wrote:great read. i too went gaga over cooking knives but not as detailed. my only wish is to have a damascus blade santoku and sushi knife. i'll make it a point to visit "Korin" next time i find my self in the big city

The best value in Damascus Santokus I've seen, by far, is the JCK Gekko-- click here. But if you're ever in the city again Tonyboy, I'll definitely take you to Korin. It's actually just a short walk from Warun's ;)

dante wrote:Tito, when you get into a hobby, you really pull out all the stops huh? ;) I envy your passion Bro. And I can understand your fascination for knives even if my interest in it gets expressed only along the commercial cheap Santokus made by Global. Wow! I hope you still write your non-audio pieces here on WS. We all benefit from your insight.


Thanks, Dante :)
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby pigdog » Tue May 12, 2009 7:48 am

funny that you should mention sushi! i have been wandering from tokyo, kyoto and osaka over the last two weeks, obviously i have a love affair with Japan. there was a time that i entertained ideas of learning to be a sushi chef as well! as like Miss Y, i Have a fondness for raw fish, and japan is a vertiable oasis of delectible japanese culinary goodies from mocchis, sushis, sashimis, ramens, robatayaki, and the ever humble kariraisen. instead, i opted for another japanese "thing" which is the shakuhachi, and this took me over a year to be able to play the basic notes. the beauty of japanese culture is that it requires a huge amount of patience, one is always a beginer even after a life time spent learning and studying a craft. this is what my shakuhachi Sensei always says, when they ask much how much i learned or what skill level, i would say i am a beginner and they themselves would laugh and say the themselves are beginners too!

i can see where you are coming from Tito, the art and craftsmanship is something very rare and special and the japanese possessed these qualities. going around japan specially in the western end of tokyo along asakusa i saw a few craftsmen making their own cutting tools, specialized artisans who handmakes fine sashimi and sushi knives, or specialized hand tools used for just about anything, even specialized tools for shakuhachi bore work, and these craftsmen are proud of thier work, just as fine shakuahchi makers living out in he chiba prefecture, kyoto and osaka. i will be back in tokyo in fall to join Okuda Sensei for the bamboo harvest as i have experienced the art of making my own shakuhachi

Tito i would recomend that you and Miss Y take the time to visit Japan, i guarranttee you that both you and MISS Y WIll love Japan, its got everything and more to offer.

i am scheduled for NYC from may 18-25 that means next week! hope we can meet up then!
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby audiostar » Tue May 12, 2009 8:03 am

Interesting and a very pleasant read, as usual Tito. I should warn you though never to get Miss Y really mad, those knives might find other uses than cut sushi :lol: just kidding off course. Hope all is well with you :)
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby dimfer » Tue May 12, 2009 8:48 am

audiostar wrote:Interesting and a very pleasant read, as usual Tito. I should warn you though never to get Miss Y really mad, those knives might find other uses than cut sushi :lol: just kidding off course. Hope all is well with you :)


reminds me of John Bobbit :lol:

Tito, interesting hobby and corallary hobby you got there. We all should make a trip to New York for Tito's Sushi Tasting Festival. BTW, guns here are required to be in locked safe, is there any regulation when it comes to knives? They could be as dangerous.
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby vintage_dog » Tue May 12, 2009 10:10 am

wow, what an interesting and educational read. keep 'em coming tito! keep in touch
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby joe3rp » Tue May 12, 2009 10:15 am

I have been interested in those japanese knives for a long time!

The main reason I have not jumped into it is because (I think) they are for right handed cutters only. And the second reason is that they are very expensive. The third they require a lot of great care ... they rust.

Tito - part of this hobby is the sharpening! Do you also have a collection of sharpening stones... :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: they are just as expensive and there are the different grades
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Tue May 12, 2009 10:29 am

hey tommy do you know of a jap santuko that uses hitachi stainless steel (i believe they make the highest grade stainless)?
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby Hyperion » Tue May 12, 2009 11:36 am

Thanks for sharing! I can imagine that if ever you go into biking/mountainbiking - you are the type who would most definitely have about a dozen different bikes immediately and a collection of tires! I am sure these beautiful knives would make you a master sushi chef in a hurry and hopefully, you can demo your skills when you visit us again - the ingredients are on us, but you are warned ... our apetites for sushi are forged in the saisaki tradition - as in "eat all you can". hehe :D
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Tue May 12, 2009 12:06 pm

Thanks Francis, and Ches, tamang tama, Joey is also in town. Perhaps one weekend we can get together, if you don't mind making the trek to faraway Brooklyn.

detubo wrote:hey tommy do you know of a jap santuko that uses hitachi stainless steel (i believe they make the highest grade stainless)?

I know Hitachi makes perhaps the best "Blue #2" but that's carbon steel. What's considered the best "stainless" right now is VG-10. The best value VG-10 Santoku I've seen is this Gekko from JCK for $98--

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This is Miss Y's favorite knife and I'd put it up against any knife at any price. (Personally, I prefer a Gyuto to a Santoku.) JCK has very fast shipping too, took us about 3 days to get our orders.

dimfer wrote:
audiostar wrote:Interesting and a very pleasant read, as usual Tito. I should warn you though never to get Miss Y really mad, those knives might find other uses than cut sushi :lol: just kidding off course. Hope all is well with you :)


reminds me of John Bobbit :lol:

:lol: Ding/Val, actually miss Y doesn't want to bother with knives. Just last week she'd been busy looking into getting a gun license in NYC. I'd been trying to convince her to go with a simple revolver for home defense but apparently she has her sights on a fancier pistol :lol:

Tito, interesting hobby and corallary hobby you got there. We all should make a trip to New York for Tito's Sushi Tasting Festival.

Naku, patay, please don't get your hopes high. Half the fun for me in this case is the gear :lol: While I can make sushi where the fish is guaranteed fresh and the rice properly timed, it's still just a step above takeout ;)

BTW, guns here are required to be in locked safe, is there any regulation when it comes to knives? They could be as dangerous.

No regulation.

joe3rp wrote:I have been interested in those japanese knives for a long time!
The main reason I have not jumped into it is because (I think) they are for right handed cutters only.

The Japanese style yanagis can be ordered in lefty version but they cost extra. On the other hand, Santokus and Gyutos can be used by either lefty/righty. Gusto mo pasyalan natin sa Wednesday? Baka magpabili si Tonyboy.

And the second reason is that they are very expensive. The third they require a lot of great care ... they rust.
Tito - part of this hobby is the sharpening! Do you also have a collection of sharpening stones... :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: they are just as expensive and there are the different grades

Yeah, I do have one dual-sided stone but I'm not yet good at it. Trying to schedule a session with Korin's master maker one of these days. I have his DVD but noticed during last Saturday's party that he teaches so much more in person. As for the cost, well, good knives range from the price of average interconnects to a good cartridge ;)

Hyperion wrote:Thanks for sharing! I can imagine that if ever you go into biking/mountainbiking - you are the type who would most definitely have about a dozen different bikes immediately and a collection of tires! I am sure these beautiful knives would make you a master sushi chef in a hurry and hopefully, you can demo your skills when you visit us again - the ingredients are on us, but you are warned ... our apetites for sushi are forged in the saisaki tradition - as in "eat all you can". hehe :D

Thanks, Hansen, If I were into bikes, perhaps not, but your compliment is appreciated :) With knives kasi, especially with yanagibas, the really good masters (Doi, Iizuka) are already past retiring age kaya better to get them in place early. Oh and the nice thing about DIY sushi is that it's way less expensive than going into a good resto :)
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby planarribbon » Tue May 12, 2009 3:38 pm

i come from bikol, where, in the town of tabaco in the province of albay, they have a fine tradition of knifemaking too. the best knives were made with carbon steel. hand forged. my grandfather had a set. as did my father. my grandfather had a bladesmith. as did my father. i have none of these. but that will not stop me from trying to get both.

as a sidebar, i have included herewith an abstract of an article entitled "Sharper" which appeared in the 28 November 2008 edition of the new yorker magazine, about bob kramer, an american master bladesmith, and his search for a better blade. a discussion about the relative merits of the eastern and western bladesmithing processes in included in the article, although not discussed at length in the abstract.

here it goes:

ABSTRACT: OUR FAR-FLUNG CORRESPONDENTS about master bladesmith Bob Kramer. Bob Kramer is one of a hundred and twenty-two people in the world, and the only former chef, to have been certified in the U.S. as a Master Bladesmith. To earn that title, which is conferred by the American Bladesmith Society (A.B.S.), Kramer underwent five years of study, culminating in the manufacture, through hand-forging, of six knives, including a fifteen-inch bowie knife. Like a mad alchemist, Kramer, aged fifty, cannot stop tinkering with steel recipes. Last year, Cook’s Illustrated ran a sidebar which stated that the Kramer chef’s knife “outperformed every knife we’ve ever rated.” A few months later, the kitchen-supply chain Sur La Table asked Kramer to design a commercial line of knives, which the store introduced this fall. The writer toured Kramer’s shop. Kramer was absorbed in an attempt to replicate the legendary achievements of Frank J. Richtig, who, in 1936, forged a butcher knife that could cut cold steel and paper. Describes the forging process. On the retail market, Western knives tend to be the softest, with Rockwell ratings in the middle to upper fifties. The Rockwell of a traditional Japanese knife, by contrast, runs in the middle sixties. Kramer first became fascinated by sharpening in the mid-nineteen-eighties, when he was a prep cook. He took a forging course with A.B.S. and obtained his Master Bladesmith certification, a coronation the A.B.S. confers once a year in Atlanta, Georgia, at the Blade Show and International Cutlery Fair. Describes this year’s convention. Kramer’s role there was to serve as a human display item at the booth for the U.S. division of Kai, the Japanese houseware and cutlery corporation that is manufacturing his Sur La Table line, under it’s Shun brand. A significant virtue of a forged Kramer knife is that it takes a keen edge, holds it well, yet sharpens easily. His knives achieve a high level of performance because their Rockwell ratings hover around sixty—comfortably between Europe’s soft cutlery and the hard blades of Japan—and because his carbon steel has an unusually fine grain structure. Mentions Al Pendray, a horseshoer and Master Bladesmith, who is famous for almost single-handedly re-creating the ancient Persian method for making a highly distinctive form of steel called Damascus. Mentions John Vervoeven. During Kramer’s visit to Japan, he attended several meetings at Kai’s Shun factory, in Seki City, part of an area once known for samurai-sword making. Mentions Junichi Takagi and Harlan Suedmeier. After Kramer returned to Seattle, the writer received a photo of a bolt and baby pork bone, both splayed open. Lying on top of them was a blade with a fat but unchipped edge. Kramer had cut a newspaper with it, too.
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby randybarba » Tue May 12, 2009 6:29 pm

Nice and very informative tito :) . I should get me one of these as the wife is also into cooking :)
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby ttommy » Tue May 12, 2009 8:44 pm

Thanks, Randy and Planarribon. I haven't yet seen a Kramer but he's indeed considered legendary and waiting for one can take years :)
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Re: Hopefully not Sayonara

Postby detubo » Tue May 12, 2009 9:19 pm

i found it na. i'd like a santoku using hitachi stainless steel ZDP-189. pag pasyal niyo ni joey, pabalita how much it would cost :tmi:
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