How important is power conditioner and dampers?

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How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Shiro » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:54 am

Hi guys,

Just would like to seek advice of experts here. Basically my setup is like this:

Cambridge 640c-->Paul spelts anti cables-->WA6-->HD600/DT880

My question is by adding power conditioner or putting dampers on my gear improve the sound? The reason I ask is because I am just using
an ordinary extrension and plug it on my wall outlet. The CD player and headphone amp just rest on a TV table with ball casters. The gears are
sitting on the stock rubber feet against the table. Nothing else.

I read alot about putting power conditioners and improves greatly on sound. Can anyone share their opinions on these? What else can I upgrade
on my system to squeeze some more juice? :D

Thank you!
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby yahoohoohoo! » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:45 pm

bro let me share with you my own experience..

when i was scouting then for a line conditioner, i got a chance to home audition an isotek worth about 20k. i immediately heard the difference, ang linis! but when i came back to my senses, i thought 20k might be too much for a line conditioner so i settled for a xindak instead. well it's priced a lot less at around 6k only, just that i dont think it made any difference to my system (sonically speaking). i guess you can take it from there :geek: ;)
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Jon Agner » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:06 pm

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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby august » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:01 pm

Hi! I agree with idol Jon..you should try the link he indicated for a discussion on using line conditioners, what they can and can't do...Like Yahoohoohoo I am using a Xindak..in my experience, in our place, it cleans the AC and therefore I perceive its effect as an improvement in SQ plus the said line conditioner also offers protection for my gears...However, the effectiveness of a line conditioner may have a lot to do also on how your system is configured...You might also want try this link......... viewtopic.php?f=57&t=6387&start=20....Good luck!
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Shiro » Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:19 pm

bro let me share with you my own experience..

when i was scouting then for a line conditioner, i got a chance to home audition an isotek worth about 20k. i immediately heard the difference, ang linis! but when i came back to my senses, i thought 20k might be too much for a line conditioner so i settled for a xindak instead. well it's priced a lot less at around 6k only, just that i dont think it made any difference to my system (sonically speaking). i guess you can take it from there bro let me share with you my own experience..

when i was scouting then for a line conditioner, i got a chance to home audition an isotek worth about 20k. i immediately heard the difference, ang linis! but when i came back to my senses, i thought 20k might be too much for a line conditioner so i settled for a xindak instead. well it's priced a lot less at around 6k only, just that i dont think it made any difference to my system (sonically speaking). i guess you can take it from there :geek: ;)



So you mean to say using the isotek you heard a big difference? Then with xindak it didnt? :o Can I audition these products here in the Philippines?
I mean I wont spend even 5k without me hearing some improvement in sound. Kepp 'em coming guys! Thank you
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Gau_Ban » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:14 am

It makes sense to protect your equipment from spikes and surges.

However, you go here and download Issue no. 26.

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/cwo/Back_Issues/

Read "The Ten biggest lies in Audio"

Then you can make a more informed decision whether or not you should buy a power line conditioner.
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby zach » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:53 am

in my experience, i have yet to hear a conditioner that "improved" the sound..if you are investing heftily in your audio, consider that the manufacturers in the "hi end/performance" level should have taken care of their products to deal with real world situations.. when they tested their equipment..before releasing it to the world.. think if they tested their products with line conditioners? or if they plugged it straight to the wall...:)
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby juric » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:26 am

Shiro wrote:Hi guys,

Just would like to seek advice of experts here. Basically my setup is like this:

Cambridge 640c-->Paul spelts anti cables-->WA6-->HD600/DT880

My question is by adding power conditioner or putting dampers on my gear improve the sound? The reason I ask is because I am just using
an ordinary extrension and plug it on my wall outlet. The CD player and headphone amp just rest on a TV table with ball casters. The gears are
sitting on the stock rubber feet against the table. Nothing else.

I read alot about putting power conditioners and improves greatly on sound. Can anyone share their opinions on these? What else can I upgrade
on my system to squeeze some more juice? :D

Thank you!


IMHO

electronics can actually do away with how they were manufactured. stock cd players were made to play well with just the ordinary rubber feet and the 2 pronged plugs will play when connected to the correct elecrical outlets.

power conditioners or line conditioners are #1intended to improve the quality of the power that is delivered to the electrical load of your equipment which in turn #2 may improve the sound quality of your equiptment because it now receives the proper voltage level for your cd player, improving power quality or smoothing it out supressing the electrical noise.

adding a line conditioner may not automatically improve the sound quality of your set-up. when i was starting in this hobby i first bought the el cheapo panther line conditioner and it did'nt make any diferrence. i was hesitant to buy the more expensive LCs because they say that it's a glorified extension cord but because of the bashing in the forums i bought a bada LC just to try it out and boy was i surprised that my LCD has cleaner picture and the sound of my audio was cleaner. i realized that the electrical output from the socket is really not that smooth! so in my case it helped!

i have a voltage meter at home reading electrical output from the socket and theres no constant minute that it would not flactuate. there's even a member at PDVD stating that his electrical output is 237v. so in my case that how dirty it gets :D

for me LC is #1 for protection for my hard earned gears and #2 cleaner electrical load. i pair my LC with a voltage regulator.

on the shackles i have not tried it with a headfi set-up and dont know if headfi set-ups are that affected with vibrations since your ears naman are isolatedly cupped. :$ :?:

and nga pala pansin ko rin kasi habang tumatagal ako dito sa hobby na to mas nagiging maarte yung tenga ko. could be because i am now know my system and really familiar with it and since i know my system well i can easily notice the difference with even the little tweaks here and there (e.g. bi-wiring, changing speaker jumper cables, changing ICs, changing speaker cables, adding tube buffers or even changing the power cord of my tube amp).

subjective talaga ang hobby natin. you'd think (kasi meron yung iba) that if you buy add ons or expensive add ons it would further improve the sound of your system...baka, baka walang effect or baka pangit ang effect :D

best advise is to home audition if you can, cause you'll never really see the effect on your system unless you try it.

just my 2 cents mga sirs :rock:
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Gau_Ban » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:54 am

I've also experimented in the past with tweaks such as CD Stoplight and CD Rings. None of these experiments cost me thousands of pesos. However, I was never sure if any perceived differences were real or a placebo effect. Syempre, gumastos ka ng pera...gusto mo na may improvement. It is time-consuming and difficult to conduct double-blind testing.

Your line voltage will vary depending on load conditions in your area. The power supplies in audio equipment should handle fluctuations of +/-10% and they have very good RFI/EMI rejection.

Spike protection does not have to cost thousands of pesos. Metallic oxide varistors are cheap. Say 27 pesos each.
You don't really need the added RFI/EMI rejection of line conditioners because a properly designed power supply already has excellent noise rejection.
Since many line conditioners don't regulate voltage, there is no protection from surges or sags in the line voltage.

IMHO, your money can be better spent elsewhere.
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Squirrelnutzipper » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:14 am

Gau_Ban wrote:I've also experimented in the past with tweaks such as CD Stoplight and CD Rings. None of these experiments cost me thousands of pesos. However, I was never sure if any perceived differences were real or a placebo effect. Syempre, gumastos ka ng pera...gusto mo na may improvement. It is time-consuming and difficult to conduct double-blind testing.

Your line voltage will vary depending on load conditions in your area. The power supplies in audio equipment should handle fluctuations of +/-10% and they have very good RFI/EMI rejection.

Spike protection does not have to cost thousands of pesos. Metallic oxide varistors are cheap. Say 27 pesos each.
You don't really need the added RFI/EMI rejection of line conditioners because a properly designed power supply already has excellent noise rejection.
Since many line conditioners don't regulate voltage, there is no protection from surges or sags in the line voltage.

IMHO, your money can be better spent elsewhere.

I could not agree with you more on all your points. If the power supply of the equipment is properly designed and built, there is little if any benefit to the expensive and over-hyped conditioning systems. I feel the same way concerning power cords and to a somewhat lesser extent with interconnects, where cpacitance and resistance have some greater impact.

I think that a lot of companies play on audiophile neurosis and can therefore successfully market 30 thousand USD power and signal cables. Hard earned money is far better spent on other system enhancements that yield more tangible results, IMHO too!
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Shiro » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:58 pm

Wow!

I am now even more confused.... :tmi:

Thank you for all the input guys! I dropped by Hyperaudio last week and tested their vinyl setup,

IMHO speakers still trump headphones by a long shot... So I guess all this savings on headphones will be put to

a speaker setup... someday....someday... :D

By the way guys, off topic, is analog really better than digital? I didnt get the chance to try their digital setup and if ever
I want a side my side comparison. But so far the analog sound I heard was stunning to say the least, even If I dont know the
artist's name. :lol:


Cheers!
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby mullard88 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:48 pm

Hi Shiro,

My own experiences in different set-ups yielded different results. I don't think I can give a direct answer to your question given my own experiences. The best way for you to find out would be for you to borrow a line conditioner if possible. Try it out in your won set-up and judge for yourself.
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby ProtegeManiac » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:00 pm

No straight answer on this but I can say that the entry level Xindak isn't just a fancy-looking extension/octopus cable. There was some improvement in dynamics and low freq response over a P500 Panther surge protector+"line conditioner."
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby spare_2_win » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:28 pm

Why dont you instead buy the Audioprism quietline, its the cheapest you can get and a proven one at that (available since the mid 9o's) in cleaning electrical noises and impurities that could harm your gears. Moreover it can transform any ordinary avr or extension socket to a decent line conditioner ideal for a set up like yours. Afterall protection is better than repairs. ;)
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby looks » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:40 pm

spare_2_win wrote:Why dont you instead buy the Audioprism quietline, its the cheapest you can get and a proven one at that (available since the mid 9o's) in cleaning electrical noises and impurities that could harm your gears. Moreover it can transform any ordinary avr or extension socket to a decent line conditioner ideal for a set up like yours. Afterall protection is better than repairs. ;)


where to buy and how much? :)
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby Gau_Ban » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:29 am

Shiro wrote:Wow!



By the way guys, off topic, is analog really better than digital? I didnt get the chance to try their digital setup and if ever
I want a side my side comparison. But so far the analog sound I heard was stunning to say the least, even If I dont know the
artist's name. :lol:


Cheers!


I am flexible. If the music is good, I can listen to either analog or digital. My CD collection includes historical mono recordings which clearly show the limitations of the recording technology of the 1950's but I listen to them because of the stunning performance. So my rule is that music comes first.
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby AUDIO8 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:24 am

Power conditioners and powercords really improves the SQ but the sad thing is you need to spend a lot to achieve this.
If your system is not revealing enough it will give you a little or no improvement at all no matter how much you spend.
In your case the most cost effective upgrade you need is the power supply not the cord and conditioner.
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby edwin » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:29 am

For me, I cannot live without my DIY line isolation/conditioner. I too, cannot spend a lot on these gadgets, that is why I went ot the DIY route.

Borrow from friends and try it on your system. Have a feel on how this gonna affect your system.
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby JoeyGS » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:12 pm

Kris,

It's available at MCS-Watt Hifi

Regards,
JoeyGS

looks wrote:
spare_2_win wrote:Why dont you instead buy the Audioprism quietline, its the cheapest you can get and a proven one at that (available since the mid 9o's) in cleaning electrical noises and impurities that could harm your gears. Moreover it can transform any ordinary avr or extension socket to a decent line conditioner ideal for a set up like yours. Afterall protection is better than repairs. ;)


where to buy and how much? :)
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Re: How important is power conditioner and dampers?

Postby JoeyGS » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:17 pm

+1 here

It really depends on how dirty the power supply is in your area. In our case in Sta.Rosa (our area), we are near transmission lines and likewise located near industrial factories. We benefited very well from the quiet lines, AVR, power filters and line conditioners. The improvement provided in our set-up may not be the same to others in other areas.

My 2cents lang po.

Regards,
JoeyGS


edwin wrote:For me, I cannot live without my DIY line isolation/conditioner. I too, cannot spend a lot on these gadgets, that is why I went ot the DIY route.

Borrow from friends and try it on your system. Have a feel on how this gonna affect your system.
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