Speaker Placement Methods

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Speaker Placement Methods

Postby mozilla » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:35 am

This is a sticky thread on Speaker Placement Methods posted here as a quick reference guide. If you have tried any of these setups, please share your experiences with the group.

To start it off, here are links to various methods:


Audio Physic Method
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/audiophysic.html
http://www.immediasound.com/Speakersetup.html

The Cardas Method
http://www.cardas.com/cgi-bin/main_content.cgi?area=Insights&content_id=26&pagestring=Room+Setup
http://www.cardas.com/cgi-bin/main_content.cgi?area=Insights&content_id=27&pagestring=Room+Setup

The WASP Method (Wilson Audio Set-up Procedure)
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html
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Postby vintage_dog » Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:57 pm

moz, this is very helpful. thanks for posting
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Postby mozilla » Wed Jan 29, 2003 6:37 am

Yes I thought it would be as the topic of Speaker placement crops up now & then so I posted it as a sticky so it's always on top and doesn't get buried among the newer threads later on.
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Diagonal Setup

Postby RU9 » Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:51 pm

This is rather unconventional, but this is my speaker placement
for years.

I am posting this now because I did find this link:

http://www.decware.com/paper14.htm

The sub is placed on the corner in front of the
listening position.
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Postby qguy » Tue May 13, 2003 10:47 am

a few question on speaker placement...

Using a sub-sat system, and when the satelites (driven full range, rolls off at about 100 hz) are about 6 feet away from the listener...is it advisable to put a carpet in between the listener and loudspeaker

How about the chair is it ideal to have a chair with a high "backrest" (yung sandalan) ..that is larger and higher than the head...or is it better to have a chair with a low "backrest"

thanks
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Postby rtsyrtsy » Tue May 13, 2003 12:03 pm

qguy wrote:Using a sub-sat system, and when the satelites (driven full range, rolls off at about 100 hz) are about 6 feet away from the listener...is it advisable to put a carpet in between the listener and loudspeaker


The issue w/ carpets is they have selective frequency absorption/reflectivity so it's really hard to tell whether they'd be good for your system unless you try them.


qguy wrote:How about the chair is it ideal to have a chair with a high "backrest" (yung sandalan) ..that is larger and higher than the head...or is it better to have a chair with a low "backrest"


It depends on your speaker set-up. I use (pseudo) Audio Physic (w/o sub, Boghart, but I manage to just have 1m from the front wall since I have a small area) and a high back chair may be useful especially of you can't sit against the wall the way AP recommends.

May not work for the other methods though.
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Postby dogears » Tue May 13, 2003 1:50 pm

I tried the unconventional setup from Decware last night. While it was indeed better, I can't keep on listening with this setup. My brain gets confused with the room's orientation versus the soundstage from the music :lol:
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I HAVE OVERCOME MY ROOM!

Postby arnoldc » Wed May 14, 2003 9:05 am

Yeah, last night the battle is over. This square room of mine has been conquered! And I have never enjoyed it as much. :lol:

Armed with envy and patience, i moved my speakers around to find the best position for soundstage and imaging.

At first I found a position that gave me what I think is a good soundstage (prior to this I have a "collapsed" soundstage) but some materials I play (Roxette, Greatest Hits) made me feel I'm 30 rows away from the stage.

After some more movements, i found a position that I really like, there's depth, height, some sense of width BUT, the left is stronger than the right. I'd like to blame the glass windows on the left side of the room again. But I said, hey I'm so close I can't stop. Then I noticed that the toe-in of the right speaker is a little, just a little bit off. So i adjusted the toe-in by about a fraction of an inch and BAM! I got it :twisted: My Kappa finally disappeared and was replaced by a great soundstage. Orchestral music never sounded this good! I feel I'm the conductor. Yeah!

And my problematic bass seems to improve too.

It was an enjoyable experience indeed, fruitful too! And not a single centavo spent.

Oh by the way, I used Audio Physic setup :wink:
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Postby dogears » Wed May 14, 2003 9:26 am

Last night I got the urge to try the CORRECT nearfield listening setup... DANG!!! It was a jaw dropping [actually puro mura lang ata at iling at ngisi] experience. It's the first time I experienced that very believable awesome soundstage that I never heard in any audio setup before! It might not even need room acoustic treatment anymore. Here's the link courtesy of NSM Audio: http://www.nsmaudio.com/brochures/stereosetup.html. Enjoy!

Next to the ambiophonics [http://www.ambiophonics.org/index.html] setup, this is the next best speaker setup I've tried so far. Ambiophonics will simply give you the correct soundstage with the correct size of the performance which is truly mesmerizing :wink: but then again, the setup is another story :P

p.s. I actually feel so stupid why I have not tried this before :oops:
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Postby arnoldc » Wed May 14, 2003 9:45 am

hey dogears, seems like that's what i did! The Cowboy Junkies DID sound like they're in a church :wink:
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Postby dogears » Wed May 14, 2003 9:47 am

Are you able to hear 'the aircon' on your rear right? :wink:
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Postby arnoldc » Wed May 14, 2003 9:51 am

dogears, not into that detail yet as i was testing, i'm playing lotsa stuff in 20 second samples each. i got stuck though in Keiko Lee's This is Keiko Lee as I can't stop myself from listening to three tracks.
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Postby dogears » Wed May 14, 2003 11:22 am

<- yung aso ko nagsabi sa akin nung tungkol sa aircon. pasubukan mo din sa alaga mo :lol:
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Postby joe3rp » Thu May 15, 2003 9:10 am

I myself is an AUDIO PHYSIC follower...thanks to HYPERION who introduced me to it.

I have repeatedly told every audiophile that I know to try it, at least once, since it is free anyway, just to see the effect.

One more TIP I have is for you to buy any cheap LAZER POINTER, they cost about P90 each. Just make sure to get the flat sided ones.

They help in the toe-in alignment of the speaker to the listening spot and also the elevation...what can be more precis than this. However this will work only for speakers with flat parallel sides without any adapters.

Careful - read lazer instruction, do not look or aim lazer in the eye...

I haven't tried this but it is always printed in the packaging.

So do not use it when someone is sitting in the listening spot please.
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Postby qguy » Fri May 30, 2003 2:48 pm

You can also use the Laser to chech if the enclosure is vibrating...if the red light moves...there you go....

joe3rp wrote:I myself is an AUDIO PHYSIC follower...thanks to HYPERION who introduced me to it.


One more TIP I have is for you to buy any cheap LAZER POINTER, they cost about P90 each. Just make sure to get the flat sided ones.

They help in the toe-in alignment of the speaker to the listening spot and also the elevation...what can be more precis than this. However this will work only for speakers with flat parallel sides without any adapters.
So do not use it when someone is sitting in the listening spot please.
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hola!

Postby zach » Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:46 pm

hi everybody! i'm new here so i don't know if this was suggested yet . try the equilateral triangle listening position for near field listening. just make sure that your distance from both speakers is equal to that of both speakers with your head as the third point of the triangle. make sure that the tweeters are pointed to your ears. this position offers more of the speaker sound than the room. a great way of evaluatiing your speakers without the hassle of standing waves and early reflections. anybody here who's and audiophile/recording engineer?
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Postby D75C » Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:50 pm

The links posted by Mozilla are very useful and very scientific. Great tips for everyone. They greatly stress the relationship between the loudspeaker and listening position.

For the people who do not have the benefit of dedicated listening rooms, and just plain living rooms, hope this helps.

The distance or proximity of the speakers to the walls affect the amount of bass. The closer they are, the louder the bass. SOME speaker designs like nearfield bookshelf monitors were designed to placed near the rear walls.They depend on the backwave to extend their responnse.

Most loudspeakers get better soundstage depth when they are placed a little farther out into the room (of course not in the middle of your listening room). Sometimes you wish you can follow George Cardas' suggestion, or Audio Psychic's room mapping technique unfortunately, many living rooms and bedrooms don't accomodate speakers far out into the room. If you're forced to place it close to the wall, you can use absorbent panels or bass traps, to cut down on the boominess.

Your tweeter's distance from the floor matters a lot, so vertical placement is also a consideration. Since tweeters are like pistols, and woofers are like shotguns, putting them on-axis to your ears will produce the best response. Sterephile recommends "32" to 40" from the floor should coincide with typical listening heights". So you can either invest in a pair of speaker stands or a gas-lift chair to get the best response from your speakers at the right height.

Prior to the days of commercially available cheap laser pointers, I taped small Maglites to aim my carefully positioned speakers to put them in the right direction (Primitive!). To adjust toe-in, I use in-pahse/out-of-phase pink noise tracks from either Ultradisc Alan Parsons & Stephen Court Sound Check, Sheffield MyDisc, IASCA Competition CD, XLO Test and Burn-In CD, or even the Video Essentials DVD. I find it easier to use Pink Noise instead of music for toe-in adjustments. I start with out-of-phase signals to adjust speaker distance, and in-phase for center focus.To audit my settings, I reverse the tests . It takes me around 2-5 minutes to get it right depending on the room. Once I do, I check it this time with in-phase/out-of-phase voice and mono music.

Non-rectangular rooms are a bit tricky to fix. Some have chambered walls like bay windows, some even have half a back-wall, some setups I handled restricted the speakers to a small corner of the living room. With a great deal of patience and adjustments to the furniture, you're bound to get it right. :)
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Postby [Les] » Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:42 pm

sorry to bug but why is it that my central imaging seems off center. i find the sound coming to be from off center to the right ng konti.
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Postby iceman90a » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:01 pm

[Les] wrote:sorry to bug but why is it that my central imaging seems off center. i find the sound coming to be from off center to the right ng konti.


if you dont mind taking advice from a beginner, you can either:

a) move the right speaker back (away from you - going towards the wall)
b) move the left speaker forward (away from the wall)

hope this helps :D
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Postby [Les] » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:15 pm

hey as long as it works ! :D but i don't know what i'm doing wrong, that's what i did. nothing changed.. :(
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