Moderator: JackD201
This is very true. I think the more appropriate thread name should be 'The great speaker wire debate. . . for the believers'.troporobo wrote:Siegfried Linkwitz, who has forgotten more about speakers and sound quality than most designers will ever learn, is also a non-believer and recommends zip cord with his Orions. But he has also implemented an active crossover with nothing between the amp and driver
That doesn't change the fact that people hear differences between cables. Its not just a placebo effect
This topic always ends up divided between believers and non-believers, with neither side willing to sit together and listen to the same demo. Just like religion and politics, its probably best to keep the two groups in separate rooms, or talk about the weather!
troporobo wrote:Somebody who knows more about electrical engineering than I do, please correct me if I'm wrong, but here goes . . .
As far as I understand , its not necessarily the cable by itself that makes an audible difference (though could be, I have an open mind on that point), but its interaction with the amp and speakers that makes the difference. This is precisely because amp+cable+speaker=circuit. The cable isn't just carrying a signal, but its LCR characteristics are interacting with the components at either end and possibly changing their behaviour, which could even vary with frequency. In other words, each new cable in effect creates a subtly different circuit as a whole
any thoughts?
JackD201 wrote:troporobo wrote:Somebody who knows more about electrical engineering than I do, please correct me if I'm wrong, but here goes . . .
As far as I understand , its not necessarily the cable by itself that makes an audible difference (though could be, I have an open mind on that point), but its interaction with the amp and speakers that makes the difference. This is precisely because amp+cable+speaker=circuit. The cable isn't just carrying a signal, but its LCR characteristics are interacting with the components at either end and possibly changing their behaviour, which could even vary with frequency. In other words, each new cable in effect creates a subtly different circuit as a whole
any thoughts?
NICE!
audiophileman2002 wrote:Don't know exactly what high end cable was tested by the 'guest' on the LCR but there are many high end cables out there that have low capacitances lower in fact than many oridinary cables. Furthermore, I don't quite agree that L is fairly constant and a non issue. It is desirable to have a lower inductance to reduce inductance related distortion. It is also desirable to have a lower resistance and not just compensate with the volume control. A mere increase in volume control is also raising the noise level. There are users out there using SET amps especially the 2A3 giving out a mighty 3 watts output, every bit of voltage drop counts and every bit of lessened inductance matters.
Don't think it is a simple measurement by an LCR meter will suffice. What about signal generation and viewing the signal in waveform (say a square wave) on an dual trace oscilloscope in an input / output tests. What can be seen on the scope on a pink noise signal? What about a test to replicate a constant current change as seen and measured on a scope?
The bottom line is if one can't hear any difference for the better (depending on users taste) between an ordinary cable and a high end one, DON'T BUY THE HIGH END CABLE.
arnoldc wrote:rascal101, if you don't believe audiophileman, why don't you test the flat Goertz speaker cable against an Analysis Plus. As audiophileman said, there are users like me, who runs with 3 watts or even one watt of power. hindi bingi yung mga taong nakarinig nung nag cause ng distortion sa amp ko yung Goertz.
on a similar note, can your facility provide testing and measurements such as power output, frequency response, distortion, input sensitivity, etc. for our commercial Tono amps? we would be interested in your services.
audiophileman2002 wrote:Don't know exactly what high end cable was tested by the 'guest' on the LCR but there are many high end cables out there that have low capacitances lower in fact than many oridinary cables. Furthermore, I don't quite agree that L is fairly constant and a non issue. It is desirable to have a lower inductance to reduce inductance related distortion. It is also desirable to have a lower resistance and not just compensate with the volume control. A mere increase in volume control is also raising the noise level. There are users out there using SET amps especially the 2A3 giving out a mighty 3 watts output, every bit of voltage drop counts and every bit of lessened inductance matters.
bruno wrote:Rascal 101,
Pahiram ko sa iyo yung July 1993 issue ko ng Audio magazine which has Fred E. Davis' article, "Speaker Cables: Testing for Audibility". He tested a dozen different cables including woven/braided multiconductor cables, zip cords and automotive jumper cables!
Fred E. Davis is also the author of "Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker, and Amplifier Interactions" from the Journal of Audio Engineering Society.
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