Metal Spikes

[hein]

My Letter to Bowers and Wilkins (verbatim):

Attn: B & W Speaker Development Division

To avoid damage to wooden floors when using spikes, it has been suggested to use a metal coin under the sharp end. My friend Mr. Hansen from Sampaloc, Manila says that it will make the sound THIN and BRITTLE. What is your experience on this? Hein

ANSWER:

Dear Mr. Hein:

There are a number of accesories sold by Hifi dealers that protect the floor without compromising quality. Based on our experience, these spike shoes (or even a COIN) WILL NOT make the sound thin and brittle.

Regards,

Stephen Baker

[dinolara]

Hyperion, do you see Dinolara's Avatar pic on the left? He really MEANS it this time.

i thought the avatar meant: we're in love and finally married, here are our rings to prove it!
(dino, clarification lang, those are ring-fingers, not middle fingers, right?)

Yes, it's the ring finger. I asked permission for this in another thread, Mr. arnoldc said it's alright. I have no problem if Mr. hein use it as a joke.

[ichabod]

I had asked for it, and with all due respect thank you for doing so.

It's clear from B & W's perspective that sound is not compromised, meaning it's sonic signature remains the same whatever that is!

[dinolara]

ive heard those 805s and i think they sound great although im not sure if its the humongous jadis amp or the 300B monoblocks or the new dynavector cart that is responsible for the beautiful sound. i failed to notice though if the 805s were on coins or not.

I'm not using coins. Based on my experiments, cardas cables and audience power cords made the difference. I'm OK with the tonality but can still be improved.

I don't want to experiment anymore if coins would matter so I guess my B&W is not a good source for this discussion.

[levi]

I use base footer with my spikes to avoid scratching the floor. I think my system is too simple for me to hear the difference but scratching the floor would be a bigger problem for me.

[zach]

Is that so Zach? I thought it's about New Year's Eve tradition to put coins at strategic points in the house and not forgetting the home theater or audio room portion.

haha

[zach]

hmm... i wonder how and when this little coin tussle will end.

[arnoldc]

several days ago, i decided to dump the lovan footers that i've been using on my speaker stands. the result was more body and warmth in the sound. in fact, i've never heard the Infinity Kappa sound warm like this and never thought it could. two records that i always use for reference is sergio mendez's mais que nada and the other is boston (self-titled). the cymbals on mais que nada seems to have more body, and boston's more than a feeling is now listenable even with the clearaudio sigma.

i'm not taking sides here, but this is the result and i am happy with it. YMMV.

[zenn]

several days ago, i decided to dump the lovan footers that i've been using on my speaker stands. the result was more body and warmth in the sound. in fact, i've never heard the Infinity Kappa sound warm like this and never thought it could. two records that i always use for reference is sergio mendez's mais que nada and the other is boston (self-titled). the cymbals on mais que nada seems to have more body, and boston's more than a feeling is now listenable even with the clearaudio sigma.

i'm not taking sides here, but this is the result and i am happy with it. YMMV.

Same experience with me, after hearing live concerts at least once a week, my ears can no longer tolerate the sound these metals (spikes, footers, etc) give. Take note for example the sound of a violin or a trumpet. In my humble system, these instruments sound tinny and unnatural with the metals on. Do an experiment, Listen and You'll See.

[ichabod]

Boy! This blows the theory that metal footers (coins perhaps?) will not make a stamp on a speaker's sound. It will according to these guys, and please don't make any attempt I'm adding fire here 'cause I'm not. Just illustrates a point that there are indeed a handful of speakers whose sonics can get affected by it. A trained set of ears like arnold's and zenn's will notice it! I do too on the LS 3/5a on changing stands and height of the speakers.

[zach]

several days ago, i decided to dump the lovan footers that i've been using on my speaker stands. the result was more body and warmth in the sound. in fact, i've never heard the Infinity Kappa sound warm like this and never thought it could. two records that i always use for reference is sergio mendez's mais que nada and the other is boston (self-titled). the cymbals on mais que nada seems to have more body, and boston's more than a feeling is now listenable even with the clearaudio sigma.

i'm not taking sides here, but this is the result and i am happy with it. YMMV.

ey arnold na try mo na siya without the spikes too?

[arnoldc]

zach, hindi pa eh. hindi kasi pantay yung sahig ko eh.

[hein]

ZENN, a lot of people here at WS use SPIKES, arnoldc, zach, me, levi, just to name a few. That was NOT the BONE OF CONTENTION in the past few pages. I know about 30 other audiophiles who use spikes with no problem.

Arnoldc, in his comment above, described his SPIKED Infinity speakers as WARM, has BODY, and very LISTENABLE.

ZENN states that using SPIKES or other metal stuff will make instruments sound TINY and UNNATURAL.

Ano ba talaga?

ATTN: SPIKE USERS, What do you say about this!

[sopas]

dinolara,


There are always two sides to every coin. People like you who do not like me would undoubtedly see that Ms. Earwax "beat me to a bloody pulp" the last time around. Otoh, less biased people easily saw that she did not really engage me in any meaningful discussion at all. She simply resorted to ad hominem attack and ridicule as diversionary tactic since she has no answer to my arguments. What she posted were amusing, entertaining and laudable for effort, but they happened to have zero value for substance. It was the functional equivalent of a dose of daily tabloid gossip.

I read that little tiff you had with her and i beg to disagree. Yes she went overboard when she started pairing you up with that friend of hers with polio. Overboard but funny. Overall I think she writes with style and wit. But the point she drove about you spending not so conclusive hours with Mark Levinsons hit the mark. You should have said something like it was your initial reaction or something and not speak in the absolute and final way that you usually do that results in the ire of some people. Although the term "beating you to a pulp" seems a bit harsh, she beat you nevertheless. And she did it with finnesse i might add. In the end, you never really answered her point with regards to the time you spent with mls. Zero substance? the functional equivalent of a dose of daily tabloid gossip? i think not.

[mozilla]

I use spikes in speaker stands and equipment racks. I don't use them in equipment shelves.

One must understand the purpose of spikes in audio. Being an architect, I have a fair understanding of isolation & coupling of structures. For many who are new in this hobby, spikes in speaker stands are used to anchor the stands to the carpet for better stability of the stand.

That is partially true. Vibration control is important in audio as it relates to mechanical & electrical resonances in the equipment thus affecting performance. Mechanical vibrations are excited between components ie equipment to rack to floor & viceversa; speaker to stand to floor & viceversa. The type of construction and material of the stand in question also "adds" to the resonances that travel it. For example, tubular stands induce ringing so we damp these by filling them w/ sand.

Acoustic pressure generated by the speakers can travel directly to stands & go all the way to thecomponents. Internal vibrations from transformers & cd/tt motors also make their way around.

The audiophile's goal is to reduce these vibrations partly thru damping, by the use of rigid stands & isolating floor borne vibrations from contaminating the speakers for example.

Spikes couple the stand to the floor reducing the surface contact area between the two. This way the overall resonance between the two are reduced as the contact area between speaker stand & floor are also reduced. Spikes in stands stabilizes the speakers by reducing the effect of motion thru air pressure. When your amp sends an electrical signal to your speaker that demands your woofer to move by 2mm, any additional rocking from an unstable coupling of floor to speaker will result in an exageration of that coil movement resulting in coloration, poor image stability & undefined bass.

For those who have suspended wood fooring, it is best to locate the stands near the structural supports. This will provide extra rigidity that will reduce to some extent, the resonances inherent in unrigid flooring.

The shape & size of the spikes also affect the sound as well. A well designed floor standing speaker (or stand designed for a praticular bookshelf) will have spikes that are tuned to the resonances of that particular speaker.

That is probably why B&W, Wilson, etc do not require coins or footers for their speakers.

Secondly, if your speakers do not sound good with spikes, it is probably because the location of the spikes have been such that it is exagerrating nodes in the stand viz your speaker & floor. The workaround is patient tuning of the system.

This is also why adding footers or coins may "change" the sound but this does not necessarily mean it "improves" the sound. Remember that there are 2 sides to a cone or footer. Its flat end has wider contact area that may exacerbate nodal resonances particularly in suspended wood floors.

All these interactions make this hobby sometimes exasperating, sometimes fun but the end result if you get it right can be very rewarding.

Enjoy the music!

[hein]

I read that little tiff you had with (EARWAX) and i beg to disagree. Yes she went overboard when she started pairing you up with that friend of hers with polio. Overboard but funny. Overall I think she writes with style and wit. But the point she drove about you spending not so conclusive hours with Mark Levinsons hit the mark. You should have said something like it was your initial reaction or something and not speak in the absolute and final way that you usually do that results in the ire of some people. Although the term "beating you to a pulp" seems a bit harsh, she beat you nevertheless. And she did it with finnesse i might add. In the end, you never really answered her point with regards to the time you spent with mls. Zero substance? the functional equivalent of a dose of daily tabloid gossip? i think not.

Eventually, HYPERION ate his words and DID ADMIT that MARK LEVINSON amplifiers did sound great pala. (Remember your Jean Y. comment?)

The reason why I QUALIFY my statements and DO NOT MAKE any BROAD encompassing ones is that I have seen enough SURPRISES in this hi-end audio game. I have been in this hobby since the mid-80's and have seen some of the best and the weirdest stuff (How about a pair of JADIS speakers that looked like a ROCKY HORROR SHOW prop and cost 1 million bucks? How did it sound? I didnt stay long enough, I was afraid it might eat me) Yet until now I keep an open mind because you will never really know.... A few examples:

1. One of the best sounding single-box CD players ever made was this JVC 1010/1050. Mr. BOMALABS and MR. DISCEXCHANGE used this one
for many years.

2. Horn speakers were said to be glaring and offensive in the midrange area, yet one of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard was the AVANTGARDE Trio Horn speakers. Horrendously expensive but natural as you have ever experienced.

3. SONY makes these huge monoblock power amplifiers as big as Krells and rivals anything the Americans can put out. Available only in Japan, heard it run in HK. Sounded as clear and fluid as the Mark Levinsons.

4. I did not know that rocks can make rock music, but the chest-high AVALON speakers with solid GRANITE cabinets sounded out of this world! Mr. Flinstone would have wanted a pair.

5. Thin planar magnetic speakers are not known to make good bass, but the APOGEE DUETTA signatures just blew me away with its pure 30hz earthshaking bass! WHOAA!

6. The latest sensation in speakers are these USHERs from TAIWAN. (Taiwan? Que Horror!! Over my dead body!!) Sounded like little Sonus Fabers if you ask me.


"OPEN YOUR EYES" Penelope Cruz, Vanilla Sky, 2002

[Hyperion]

arnoldc,

I am glad this "bloody" thread has become of benefit to someone!

sopas,

I invite you to read the thread again. I sufficiently answered all her questions and arguments including time spent with ML stuff. Besides the thread was never really about ML anyway but about neutrality. What did she write that negated my stance about neutrality to "beat me"?

hein,

Unfortunately not all ML sound like 32/33H.

[hein]

HYPERION,

Unfortunately not all MLs are DARK and UNINVOLVING.

[Hyperion]

hein,

Hey everybody makes mistakes hehe. You sure Ushers sound like Sonus fabers?

[hein]

HYPERION,

1. Good you know. BE MORE CAREFUL next time.

2. Im smart enough to AVOID a TRAP. (BTW, IQ=138) BYE, I'm off to my vacation, TA-TA