What an Expensive Cartridge can do to a Reviewer :-)

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What an Expensive Cartridge can do to a Reviewer :-)

Postby m_shoe_maker » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:11 pm

Cartridge House Sound, its really a personal thing. :)

A cartridge may sound this way, and may be loved or hated. :wink:

A cartridge may sound that way, and still, you will have praises and criticism. :wink:

Its really a personal thing, especially if you know what you want, and that you are your own boss. :)

Now, what if 2 carts, with very different house sounds are compared by one individual. :wink: You would think that one will be praised, while the other will be criticized...... :roll: :roll: Not that one is inferior, and that the other is superior...... Its just a matter of this particular reviewer's personal preference, right :?: :?: :roll:

The Koetsu Urushi 8)

The Lyra Helikon 8)

These 2 cart brands can be considered in having one of the most "different" house sounds. :o Both have their respective lovers and haters.... Some may even consider them the Yin and Yang of cartridge brands. :roll:

Both are Rated Class A by Stereophile. 8) Both were evaluated by one person. 8) 8) :shock:

Now, what does that mean :?: Simple. The reviewer is a lucky dude. :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:roll: :wink:
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Postby manilaman » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:07 pm

I fully agree Mr. MSM. Many factors affect the performance of the gears we buy. The environement it exists in, plays an "out side the plant" factor; how it has been matched, the way the mechanical factors have been "tuned". Once all have fallen into place, then the performance appreciation if left to the person's choice, both in performance and type of music being appreciated. At the end of the day, we buy first what we want to afford. We have to live with the limitation of that, as it is a fact. :lol:

Regardless of how much we throw towards the hobby, i believe that a significant part of our confidence to buy, is built up by the "supplier" we get it from. The market is so tightly close, that bad news travel fast..........and believe me, you'd be fooling yourself if you tell me that your gear performs well and sounds good, when you are frustrated with your source. (an opinion, no pun intended) :roll: :roll:
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Postby JackD201 » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:33 am

Bless the dude that knows a good thing when he hears it. :)
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Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:45 am

JackD201 wrote:Bless the dude that knows a good thing when he hears it. :)


That is why you make the choice. I 'm sure God blessed you! :D
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Re: What an Expensive Cartridge can do to a Reviewer :-)

Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:10 am

m_shoe_maker wrote:Cartridge House Sound


I often hear this line from you. How did you determine what house sound is? Is it sourced from reviewers? The manufacturers?

The Clearaudio carts of the previous generation is a total departure from what the new ones sound like. I may not be the best judge but I have owned a Sigma, Victory, Discovery, Accurate and Insider Gold. Each had different characteristics. I have also owned a Concerto, Stradivari Goldfinger and now using a Titanium of the recent line-up and each one has its own character. The Concerto is very very lush and warm (85db dynamic range) The Strad leans toward neutrality with more range (90db dynamic range). The Titanium is eeerily neutral and lush at the same time...and the extension of the highs and bass is way beyond the other two (95db dynamic range). God blessed those with the Goldfinger. It is another animal (100db dynamic range). These batch of Clearaudios have almost twice the dynamic range of other cartridges in the market today.

So how can you determine house sound????? :? :? :?
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Postby JackD201 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:57 am

ihatejazz wrote:
JackD201 wrote:Bless the dude that knows a good thing when he hears it. :)


That is why you make the choice. I 'm sure God blessed you! :D


Myself and MANY others :D

The old language used by reviewers in the past is not enough to describe today's products. The landscape has changed so much. All these reviewers now sound confused or at least at a loss for words.

That's what a good cart (or any other piece of good gear) can do to a reviewer. :lol:

Believe it. There has been a paradigm shift. The best of the best are notable for what they do not do as opposed to what they do well.

Describe that! :shock:

Imagine today you can get gear that is detailed, sweet, dynamic, lush, smooth, lightning quick, airy, solid all in one package :lol: Hindi na uso manipis, mataba o matining etc. There are carts, decks,cdps, pres, amps and speakers that can do all............depending on what's on the recording :shock:

I think this is TRUE neutrality not the old concept of being dry, dead, antiseptic etc. Todays generation of gear gets so much right they are hard write about.

Take for example the Clearaudio Titanium vs. The Dynavector XV-1s, "They are more alike than they are different"

Yet these minutae are profound. The subliminal ease and spirit like touch of the XV-1s or the Glorious Crescendos and Gutwrenching slam of the CA Titanium but with the extremely faithful and natural midrange possessed by both.

By both?? Uh huh. Which to choose? BUY BOTH! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby kukang » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:38 am

JackD201 wrote:Take for example the Clearaudio Titanium vs. The Dynavector XV-1s, "They are more alike than they are different"

Yet these minutae are profound. The subliminal ease and spirit like touch of the XV-1s or the Glorious Crescendos and Gutwrenching slam of the CA Titanium but with the extremely faithful and natural midrange possessed by both.

By both?? Uh huh. Which to choose? BUY BOTH! :lol: :lol: :lol:


paglaki ko i want to be like jack - to have both........... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:42 am

JackD201 wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:
JackD201 wrote:Bless the dude that knows a good thing when he hears it. :)


That is why you make the choice. I 'm sure God blessed you! :D


Myself and MANY others :D

The old language used by reviewers in the past is not enough to describe today's products. The landscape has changed so much. All these reviewers now sound confused or at least at a loss for words.

That's what a good cart (or any other piece of good gear) can do to a reviewer. :lol:

Believe it. There has been a paradigm shift. The best of the best are notable for what they do not do as opposed to what they do well.

Describe that! :shock:

Imagine today you can get gear that is detailed, sweet, dynamic, lush, smooth, lightning quick, airy, solid all in one package :lol: Hindi na uso manipis, mataba o matining etc. There are carts, decks,cdps, pres, amps and speakers that can do all............depending on what's on the recording :shock:

I think this is TRUE neutrality not the old concept of being dry, dead, antiseptic etc. Todays generation of gear gets so much right they are hard write about.

Take for example the Clearaudio Titanium vs. The Dynavector XV-1s, "They are more alike than they are different"

Yet these minutae are profound. The subliminal ease and spirit like touch of the XV-1s or the Glorious Crescendos and Gutwrenching slam of the CA Titanium but with the extremely faithful and natural midrange possessed by both.

By both?? Uh huh. Which to choose? BUY BOTH! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Jack,
I'm proud of you!!!!! :D
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Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:43 am

Anxiously waiting for Mr. House Sound's comment :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:20 am

ihatejazz wrote:Anxiously waiting for Mr. House Sound's comment :lol: :lol: :lol:


Aba, hinahamon ako ah. :evil:

Ok, so ano ba talaga tong "House Sound" na ito :?: BS lang ba to :?: :roll: HawShao lang ba to :?: Actually, it really depends on you, the listener. :wink: Kung may napapansin ka, meron, kung wala, then God blessed you. :D

I personally believe that its the distinct "sonic signature" the manufacturer "leaves" in its product / brand, which makes one successful or palpak, loved or hated, praised or ridiculed. :wink:

If you think wala to, then wala talaga, end of story, and they lived happily ever after. :twisted:


Ok, let's leave our personal thoughts about this, and ponder on how the manufacturer thinks......


This hobby of ours is very subjective. :roll: Alam natin yan diba :?: :wink:

It is so because, we, humans, all have our personal preferences. Alam rin natin to diba :?:

Owners of audio manufacturers are humans too diba :?: Well, iba buwaya kasi garapal mag presyo ng producto. :twisted: :lol: :twisted: Anyway, these guys too may have their own personal preferences or perception of what is the "correct" sound. :roll: Are you still with me here :?:

So, given this very personal perception, manufacturers "voice" their products based on what they think is "correct" given their "reference" ancillary equipment used (another variable which influences how the manufacturers will "voice" his product). :?

Eh pano kung bingi yung owner ng isang audio company :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yes, in certain cases nag-iiba yung "House Sound" to different degrees. :roll: Take for instance VPI. :wink: Old VPIs sound different. Dark would be the more common adjective. :roll: This may be bacause of the platter/bearing combo. Old VPIs used those heavy platters with acrylic, stainless steel, and lead (inside). :o Now they use all acryluc platters with inverted bearings. :) Whether they did this for cost reasons, it changed the their tables' character. Its now more open, IMHO. :)

The question of, "Did it changed :?: ", can be argued 'til death do us part, but fact is, there are some people who still prefer the old school platter as opposed to the new all-acrylic platter. :) Why :?: Siguro naman.... kasi iba tumunog.... ayaw pa rin maniwala :?: O sige na nga, mas maporma yung old school platter eh. :lol: :lol: :lol: That's the real reason. :lol:


Teka-teka, VPI yan ah, eh bakit umiba tunog, ano nangyari sa house sound :?: Yup umiba nga, but IMHO, its sonic signature is still there, the "weighty mid-bass down to the bass" which IMHO, is a bit on the colored side as compared to others. :wink:

Teka-teka, eh bakit nga nag iba :?: Baka naglinis lang ng tenga si Harry Weisfeld :?: :twisted: :lol: :lol: Wait a minute :!: Baka naman its because before, he used the Clearaudio Insider Reference as his reference cart to tune his products, and now he uses a Dynavector XV1s.. :roll: Baka lang...... :wink: :wink: :wink:


Kung BS lang ang "House Sound" of carts, then there is no point in cart rolling. This would make life so boring.


Kaya dapat meron :!: :twisted:
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Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:26 am

m_shoe_maker wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:Anxiously waiting for Mr. House Sound's comment :lol: :lol: :lol:


Aba, hinahamon ako ah. :evil:

Ok, so ano ba talaga tong "House Sound" na ito :?: BS lang ba to :?: :roll: HawShao lang ba to :?: Actually, it really depends on you, the listener. :wink: Kung may napapansin ka, meron, kung wala, then God blessed you. :D

I personally believe that its the distinct "sonic signature" the manufacturer "leaves" in its product / brand, which makes one successful or palpak, loved or hated, praised or ridiculed. :wink:

If you think wala to, then wala talaga, end of story, and they lived happily ever after. :twisted:


Ok, let's leave our personal thoughts about this, and ponder on how the manufacturer thinks......


This hobby of ours is very subjective. :roll: Alam natin yan diba :?: :wink:

It is so because, we, humans, all have our personal preferences. Alam rin natin to diba :?:

Owners of audio manufacturers are humans too diba :?: Well, iba buwaya kasi garapal mag presyo ng producto. :twisted: :lol: :twisted: Anyway, these guys too may have their own personal preferences or perception of what is the "correct" sound. :roll: Are you still with me here :?:

So, given this very personal perception, manufacturers "voice" their products based on what they think is "correct" given their "reference" ancillary equipment used (another variable which influences how the manufacturers will "voice" his product). :?

Eh pano kung bingi yung owner ng isang audio company :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yes, in certain cases nag-iiba yung "House Sound" to different degrees. :roll: Take for instance VPI. :wink: Old VPIs sound different. Dark would be the more common adjective. :roll: This may be bacause of the platter/bearing combo. Old VPIs used those heavy platters with acrylic, stainless steel, and lead (inside). :o Now they use all acryluc platters with inverted bearings. :) Whether they did this for cost reasons, it changed the their tables' character. Its now more open, IMHO. :)

The question of, "Did it changed :?: ", can be argued 'til death do us part, but fact is, there are some people who still prefer the old school platter as opposed to the new all-acrylic platter. :) Why :?: Siguro naman.... kasi iba tumunog.... ayaw pa rin maniwala :?: O sige na nga, mas maporma yung old school platter eh. :lol: :lol: :lol: That's the real reason. :lol:


Teka-teka, VPI yan ah, eh bakit umiba tunog, ano nangyari sa house sound :?: Yup umiba nga, but IMHO, its sonic signature is still there, the "weighty mid-bass down to the bass" which IMHO, is a bit on the colored side as compared to others. :wink:

Teka-teka, eh bakit nga nag iba :?: Baka naglinis lang ng tenga si Harry Weisfeld :?: :twisted: :lol: :lol: Wait a minute :!: Baka naman its because before, he used the Clearaudio Insider Reference as his reference cart to tune his products, and now he uses a Dynavector XV1s.. :roll: Baka lang...... :wink: :wink: :wink:


Kung BS lang ang "House Sound" of carts, then there is no point in cart rolling. This would make life so boring.


Kaya dapat meron :!: :twisted:


Galit!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: KD, S.O.S. naman. Baka tayo maubusan d2!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby kukang » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:48 am

ihatejazz wrote:Galit!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: KD, S.O.S. naman. Baka tayo maubusan d2!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby manilaman » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:54 am

ihatejazz wrote:Galit!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: KD, S.O.S. naman. Baka tayo maubusan d2!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Eh nag tanong ka ng definition, eh di sumagot. Tama nga ba ang sagot? O subjective ulit? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:18 am

manilaman wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:Galit!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: KD, S.O.S. naman. Baka tayo maubusan d2!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Eh nag tanong ka ng definition, eh di sumagot. Tama nga ba ang sagot? O subjective ulit? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Blind Man: How is the steak?
Deaf Man: Best looking turkey almost looks like a peacock!
:lol: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Postby manilaman » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:21 am

ihatejazz wrote:
manilaman wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:Galit!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: KD, S.O.S. naman. Baka tayo maubusan d2!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Eh nag tanong ka ng definition, eh di sumagot. Tama nga ba ang sagot? O subjective ulit? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Blind Man: How is the steak?
Deaf Man: Best looking turkey almost looks like a peacock!
:lol: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


He can't sell "House sound". :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:25 am

manilaman wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:
manilaman wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:Galit!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: KD, S.O.S. naman. Baka tayo maubusan d2!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Eh nag tanong ka ng definition, eh di sumagot. Tama nga ba ang sagot? O subjective ulit? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Blind Man: How is the steak?
Deaf Man: Best looking turkey almost looks like a peacock!
:lol: :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


He can't sell "House sound". :lol: :lol: :lol:


Mr. House Sound (doesn't it rhyme with HAW SIAO) not a sales man. He's going to be the future Gov of Central Bank. Kaya dikit ako dyan!!!! :P
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Postby kukang » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:55 pm

ihatejazz wrote:Mr. House Sound (doesn't it rhyme with HAW SIAO) not a sales man. He's going to be the future Gov of Central Bank. Kaya dikit ako dyan!!!! :P


IHJ, aren't you "The Central Bank"? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:21 pm

kukang wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:Mr. House Sound (doesn't it rhyme with HAW SIAO) not a sales man. He's going to be the future Gov of Central Bank. Kaya dikit ako dyan!!!! :P


IHJ, aren't you "The Central Bank"? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Fort Knox :!: :shock:
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:25 pm

Ooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh JaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaackD....

Meron ng picture ng 30-pound "HRX Super Platter". :twisted: :twisted:

Bagay sa HRX mo. :twisted: :twisted:

Its a 3-layer affair like the plinth - black, silver, black. 8)

Demonio :!: Demonio :!: Demonio :!:

Iiba tunog ng table mo............. BI :!: :twisted: Demonio :!: :twisted: :twisted: BS :?: Hawshao :?: :twisted:

$2000 lang ang list price :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Postby ihatejazz » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:26 pm

kukang wrote:
ihatejazz wrote:Mr. House Sound (doesn't it rhyme with HAW SIAO) not a sales man. He's going to be the future Gov of Central Bank. Kaya dikit ako dyan!!!! :P


IHJ, aren't you "The Central Bank"? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yun mga kapit bahay mo lalo yun katapat :D
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