Preferred type of Cart 4 U

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Postby JackD201 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:57 pm

Hyperion wrote:Musical to me, means being able to convey a holistic picture of music in a coherent and engaging manner. All cartridges are decidedly colored (oh yes, even the "hifi" ones) but some are more coherent and make more sense than others.


AMEN AGAIN.

Personally it is about the overall balance of attributes. I would rather have a cart or any piece of equipment that is equally good or equally bad throughout the spectrum. Having "Wow" highs, mids or bass only serves to highlight the weaknesses of the system........hindi na coherent. In these instances I end up listening to the sound of the system and not the music itself which, Duh, defeats my purpose.

Are "hi-fi" and "musical" mutually exclusive? I think not. You can have both at any price range provided that BALANCED PERFORMANCE be the primary criteria.
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:20 pm

Some people tune the sound of their system by tube rolling. 8)

Does anybody here tune the sound of their system by getting a particular cart 'coz of its sonic character :?: As in, aside from the room, the cart is the final frontier :lol: or final fine tuning devise to customize sound :?:

Or the cart is just purchased just for the sake of completing the system, and is normally last priority in the total system budget :?: :roll:

Pano ba to :?: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

OK, lets rephrase.........

Does one buy a cart because of brand preference / loyalty, prestige / bragging rights, favorable reviews, or loyal to the seller :?:

or.....

Does one buy a cart because that particular cart brand is percieved / may sound better in a particular system :?: No brand loyalty, but has a determined direction on how overall performance of the entire system should sound. :roll:
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Postby JackD201 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:26 pm

Bad influence ka Shoemie, ginawa ko yung cart rolling style mo only to realize that at least FOR ME I have one preferred sound.

Problema diyan by themselves fantastic pareho. A/B may lumalamang. Most of the time tuloy yung lamang yung nakasalpak.

Which do I prefer?

A secret I will divulge only to the closest most secretive members of La Casa Nostra!
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:32 pm

JackD201 wrote:Bad influence ka Shoemie, ginawa ko yung cart rolling style mo only to realize that at least FOR ME I have one preferred sound.


Di namaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. :twisted:

Kasi kung ang daming nag tu-tube roll, the question is........

bakit halos walang nag ka-kart roll :?: :(

Puro loyal sa ganyan, loyal sa ganun. Wala na bang iba :?: :(

Imagine eating Bangus everyday :!: Tilapia naman. :lol:
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Postby arnoldc » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:45 pm

Nag cart roll na ako shoeme- Alpha, Alpha Wood, Sigma, Concerto, Melody (kalahati lang), Audio Technica na tig-700 Pesoses... 8)

Di kagaya mo na puro high end ang cart...
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:52 pm

arnoldc wrote:Di kagaya mo na puro high end ang cart...


Hey, buhay pa ata Shure M447, at may isa pa akong Shure M92. 8)

:twisted: Pang trade-in ko yung mga M92 ko pag bumili ako ng cart sa US-based on-line audio store. :twisted:

Imagine, babawasan nila ng US$150 yung list price ng bibilin ko na MC kung may trade in ako na "any cart". US$150 for a M92. :lol: :lol: Naka-isa nanaman itong Pinoy na to. :lol: :lol:

Mabuhay ang Pinoy :!:
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Postby conspicuous » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:53 pm

m_shoe_maker wrote:...Kasi kung ang daming nag tu-tube roll, the question is........

bakit halos walang nag ka-kart roll :?: :(


ummm.... i would love to kart roll! :D kaya lang hindi kasi plug and play like tube rolling :evil: vta this and vtf that and align this and antiskate that :x not to mention the price of good carts these days :x :x :)
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:56 pm

conspicuous wrote:ummm.... i would love to kart roll! :D kaya lang hindi kasi plug and play like tube rolling :evil: vta this and vtf that and align this and antiskate that :x


Well, you have a point......... :(

But its fun. :) Just a small gadget can create changes. :)
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Postby jadis » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:11 pm

m_shoe_maker wrote:
JackD201 wrote:Bad influence ka Shoemie, ginawa ko yung cart rolling style mo only to realize that at least FOR ME I have one preferred sound.


Di namaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. :twisted:

Kasi kung ang daming nag tu-tube roll, the question is........

bakit halos walang nag ka-kart roll :?: :(

Puro loyal sa ganyan, loyal sa ganun. Wala na bang iba :?: :(

Imagine eating Bangus everyday :!: Tilapia naman. :lol:




MSM.

For me lang, through the years, I did cart roll in a span of a longer time frame, like once every year or two years. But for tube roll, pwede many many times ( many brands ) in a year. Simple lang explanation ko, so much easier to tube roll than cart roll. Plug in lang tubes. Sa cart, salpak to headshell, put lead in wires to pins, align ( dito lang ang dami nang klase), and then, impedance matching pa sa phono stage, etc. Kailangan talagang matyaga sa cart rolling. But both, gives the same pleasurable experiences, imo.
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Postby audiophileman2002 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:52 pm

Cartridge rolling would be simplified by using tonearms with a plug in arm tubes or universal headshells. MSM can do it with the JMW 10 or is it a 10.5. I do it with my FR64s which has a universal headshell. I just have several headshells and I rotate a 901, EMT, 103R & BM Wood depending on the music / my mood / etc.
It really is a pain if one has to go to the de-mounting, mounting and aligning procedure all the time.
It is also very convenient if the tonearm has the capability to adjust VTA on the fly. Some tonearms can do this like the JMW 10, 12, 10.5, 10.5i, 12.6 and my B-60 base on the FR64s.
Some would say it is better to have tonearms that has no coupling due to resonances and contact efficiencies. True, too. But it is really the user who ultimately decides for himself which is advantageous to him/her.
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Postby audiophileman2002 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:05 pm

jadis wrote: MSM.

For me lang, through the years, I did cart roll in a span of a longer time frame, like once every year or two years. But for tube roll, pwede many many times ( many brands ) in a year. Simple lang explanation ko, so much easier to tube roll than cart roll. Plug in lang tubes. Sa cart, salpak to headshell, put lead in wires to pins, align ( dito lang ang dami nang klase), and then, impedance matching pa sa phono stage, etc. Kailangan talagang matyaga sa cart rolling. But both, gives the same pleasurable experiences, imo.


If one just uses a transformer and a MM phono stage, it is simpler as the output of the transformer which is 47K matches the input of the MM phono stage.
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Postby jadis » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:28 pm

audiophileman2002 wrote:Cartridge rolling would be simplified by using tonearms with a plug in arm tubes or universal headshells. MSM can do it with the JMW 10 or is it a 10.5. I do it with my FR64s which has a universal headshell. I just have several headshells and I rotate a 901, EMT, 103R & BM Wood depending on the music / my mood / etc.
It really is a pain if one has to go to the de-mounting, mounting and aligning procedure all the time.
It is also very convenient if the tonearm has the capability to adjust VTA on the fly. Some tonearms can do this like the JMW 10, 12, 10.5, 10.5i, 12.6 and my B-60 base on the FR64s.
Some would say it is better to have tonearms that has no coupling due to resonances and contact efficiencies. True, too. But it is really the user who ultimately decides for himself which is advantageous to him/her.


Yes, cartridge rolling via headshells is the most convenient. Basically, it will be only the VTF that will change from this kind of rolling.
It is a very good idea as I have seen and help set up a friend's Dynavector arm with multiple cartridges/headshell combination. One can even DIY a stand with holes to fill in all the headshells ( with cartridges installed ) and put an acrylic casing on it. Then, it's all plug and play, with only the VTF adjustment and possibly a VTA adjustment to worry about.
As for loading, the standard 47K should work well for all if one is not too picky about this aspect.
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Postby jadis » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:34 pm

m_shoe_maker wrote:Some people tune the sound of their system by tube rolling. 8)

OK, lets rephrase.........

Does one buy a cart because of brand preference / loyalty, prestige / bragging rights, favorable reviews, or loyal to the seller :?:

or.....

Does one buy a cart because that particular cart brand is percieved / may sound better in a particular system :?: No brand loyalty, but has a determined direction on how overall performance of the entire system should sound. :roll:


My first 3 cartridges I bought because of reviews from the audio mags. Included in that is the so called ' bragging rights' of owning a cartridge highly rated by HP and his colleagues in TAS. After that, I bought the next 2 because that brand was perceived to sound good, or have a good sound in a particular system. Funny, I actually filled in the two categories in my audio life, but it has in fact happened to me. :D
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Re: Preferred type of Cart 4 U

Postby Voltraizer » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:51 pm

m_shoe_maker wrote:
A cart that is very MUSICAL :?: Very pleasing to the ears, even with some fat, este coloration.....

or

A cart that is known for hi levels of HIFI :?: Excellent imaging, soundstage, air, at the expense of being too ruthless with poor recordings.....

:twisted:


My notion (whether right or wrong) is that the higher the price of cart , the more technicolouration it has and the unwritten philosophy among cart-maker is to make a beautiful sounding product no matter the colour contrary to the claim that a neutral, accurate ,transparent and revealing sound character is the objective behind the design of cartridges.
No wonder koetsu has different colour....Meron green ,blue , black etc.
:D :D :D
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Postby arnoldc » Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:56 pm

Shoeme, ano ba ang "house sound" ng Transfiguration? Base sa email sa akin ni Cecile, she recommended it over ZYX.
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Postby JackD201 » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:22 pm

jadis wrote:
m_shoe_maker wrote:Some people tune the sound of their system by tube rolling. 8)

OK, lets rephrase.........

Does one buy a cart because of brand preference / loyalty, prestige / bragging rights, favorable reviews, or loyal to the seller :?:

or.....

Does one buy a cart because that particular cart brand is percieved / may sound better in a particular system :?: No brand loyalty, but has a determined direction on how overall performance of the entire system should sound. :roll:


My first 3 cartridges I bought because of reviews from the audio mags. Included in that is the so called ' bragging rights' of owning a cartridge highly rated by HP and his colleagues in TAS. After that, I bought the next 2 because that brand was perceived to sound good, or have a good sound in a particular system. Funny, I actually filled in the two categories in my audio life, but it has in fact happened to me. :D


I think we would all be liars if we don't admit it has happened to each of us AT LEAST ONCE in the past :lol:
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:28 pm

arnoldc wrote:Shoeme, ano ba ang "house sound" ng Transfiguration? Base sa email sa akin ni Cecile, she recommended it over ZYX.


Di ko talaga alam, that's why I want to get a Transfiguration also. Di natin alam, baka type ko. :roll:

Anyway, yan rin sabi sa kin ni Cecil. :wink: ZYX na lang daw. :roll:
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