Let's Talk Digital

Music as represented in 1's and 0's. Discuss anything pertaining to D hardware - CD, DVD, SACD, DAC, etc.

Postby Donlovejoy » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:38 pm

arnoldc wrote:it is near UCC, i think Connecticut. open from 1pm to 10pm i think. PM discexchange, he's the man. lotsa japanese CDs.
Thanks a lot Monsieur ARNOLDC. Your the man. :shock:
User avatar
Donlovejoy
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Quezon City

Postby JackD201 » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:40 pm

Patay nanaman pitaka ko! :lol:
User avatar
JackD201
Immortal
 
Posts: 10024
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:10 am
Location: Bozania

Postby JackD201 » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:41 pm

Thanks guys!
User avatar
JackD201
Immortal
 
Posts: 10024
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:10 am
Location: Bozania

Postby T-Rex » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:11 pm

SoFtCliPpEr wrote:Shhh I hear whitenoise LOL! BTW good to see you have accepted the monnicker I gave you :D
If you still wanna compare the Samsung to my Trivista no problemo you can still bring it over to my place. You know where I am.


Jonas,

An offer from a seller who
- is hearing things LOL
- calling you names
- doesnt give a hoot :?:

baka masmabuti pa i-consider muna yung mga brands that MSM mentioned.
User avatar
T-Rex
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 7:20 pm

Postby Donlovejoy » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:36 pm

Thanks also to detubo for the info!
User avatar
Donlovejoy
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Quezon City

Postby jo2 » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:39 pm

Let's talk DIGITAL!

Would the Original Masters recorded in PCM and was reissued in DSD better?

How DSD extracts the additional embedded information? If there's any?

Would 192Khz upsampling be similar in execution?

CD layer in the SACD disc recorded in DSD?

What about the upcoming BLUE RAY?

To many questions..... :wink:
User avatar
jo2
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:59 am
Location: Malapit kina Mang Enteng

Postby Donlovejoy » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:02 am

jo2 wrote:Let's talk DIGITAL!

Would the Original Masters recorded in PCM and was reissued in DSD better?

How DSD extracts the additional embedded information? If there's any?

Would 192Khz upsampling be similar in execution?

CD layer in the SACD disc recorded in DSD?

What about the upcoming BLUE RAY?

To many questions..... :wink:


Ang dami nyan Jo2

Based on my experience:
Original PCM Recordings vs SACD DSD
Verdict: Much better SACD DSD Mind boggling ang difference

In DVD audio when some titles can be played at stereo format
192K HZ but 96 KHZ at multichannel.
Verdict: Better dynamics at stereo mode decoded at 192 KHZ

Some SACD are Hybrid some are not Single Layer only.
Verdict: For me I prefer the single layer playback on SACD only.
But for better lables like FIM, RCA Living Stereo, MOFI,
TELARC SACDs the performance is excellent even if its Hybrid.

The Blue Ray, :) he he he lets wait and see
User avatar
Donlovejoy
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Quezon City

Postby Donlovejoy » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:58 pm

For more info on SACD try this link:

http://www.superaudio-cd.com/
User avatar
Donlovejoy
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Quezon City

Postby SoFtCliPpEr » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:01 pm

jo2 wrote:Let's talk DIGITAL!

Would the Original Masters recorded in PCM and was reissued in DSD better?

How DSD extracts the additional embedded information? If there's any?

Would 192Khz upsampling be similar in execution?

CD layer in the SACD disc recorded in DSD?

What about the upcoming BLUE RAY?

To many questions..... :wink:



jo2

Lets try to tackle your querries on the first one there is definitely a big difference in terms of sonic quality between the original PCM recording vis a vis the reissued DSD mainly because of the following reasons:

Here's what Tom Jung has to say on a recent interview, Lander
You first heard DSD very early on, at a by-invitation-only listening session at a Sony Music studio in New York City with three other recording engineers, Bob Ludwig, Bruce Swedien, and Michael Bishop from Telarc. tell us about it.

TOM JUNG
They had a jazz quartet setup on the studio, and David Smith, who is Sony's technical guru, had built a passive four-way switch that would allow us to listen to and switch between the live output of the mixing desk,conventional 16 bit digital, the latest and greatest 20 bit converter, and finally to DSD. The DSD WAS SO MUCH CLOSER TO THE LIVE SIGNAL than either PCM converter that it was OBVIOUS this was a direction I really wanted to pursue.

Lander
Do you feel DSD solves the problems inherent in PCM?

TOM JUNG
It does. I'm finding after all these years that, when I listen to an SACD, especially things that I record, where before I'd probably only listen from a quality perspective and not really be able to get into the music that much, [now] I'll listen to the whole thing. It draws you in, much like ANALOG did, but without the ANALOG problems. :)

Therefore Upsampling the basic redbook cd to 192khz would also benefit the listener to a marked improvement in terms of sonic qualities. Now the CD layer on the Hybrid SACD is recorded in it's basic PCM allowing the disc to be enjoyed in any basic CD player. You also have the luxury of listening to the Hybrid SACD in either Stereo or multi-channel mode depending on what application may be available to you cool eh :)

Here are some of the latest on Blu-Ray for your perusal:

Dec 24, 2004 - JVC Develops Blu-ray/DVD Combo Disc Technology

Victor Company of Japan, Ltd. (JVC) today announced that it has developed the world's first Blu-ray/DVD combo disc technology, which opens the way for the emergence of video releases containing content in both Blu-ray and DVD formats on a single disc. The new combo disc, which has a total storage capacity of 33.5GB (25GB BD-ROM, 8.5GB DVD), uses a triple layer structure made possible by the development of a proprietary high-performance reflective film that reflects the blue laser used for Blu-ray, but is transparent to the red laser used for DVDs. JVC will forward a proposal to the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) to have the technology accepted as a specification for future commercialization. The company is also working on a Blu-ray/DVD combo disc with an even larger 58.5GB (50GB BD-ROM, 8.5GB DVD) storage capacity.

Read more: JVC

Hope this helps :)

SC
SoFtCliPpEr
 

Postby SoFtCliPpEr » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:11 pm

Donlovejoy wrote:SoFtCliPpEr:
SACD na JASRAC pa! WOW!!! :o Saan available and anong mga titles? :twisted:


I got this one at HongKong btw the multichannel sounded more coherent than the Stereo option. well nothing is perfect huh? I also prefer to listen to the single layered SACD more so the Trivista was a perfect marraige to them.

However very recently I got a Depeche Mode 101 SACD and was multichannel capable. Brother it sure made my head turn hehehe.

SC
SoFtCliPpEr
 

Postby Donlovejoy » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:16 pm

SoFtCliPpEr wrote:
jo2 wrote:Let's talk DIGITAL!

Would the Original Masters recorded in PCM and was reissued in DSD better?

How DSD extracts the additional embedded information? If there's any?

Would 192Khz upsampling be similar in execution?

CD layer in the SACD disc recorded in DSD?

What about the upcoming BLUE RAY?

To many questions..... :wink:



jo2

Lets try to tackle your querries on the first one there is definitely a big difference in terms of sonic quality between the original PCM recording vis a vis the reissued DSD mainly because of the following reasons:

Here's what Tom Jung has to say on a recent interview, Lander
You first heard DSD very early on, at a by-invitation-only listening session at a Sony Music studio in New York City with three other recording engineers, Bob Ludwig, Bruce Swedien, and Michael Bishop from Telarc. tell us about it.

TOM JUNG
They had a jazz quartet setup on the studio, and David Smith, who is Sony's technical guru, had built a passive four-way switch that would allow us to listen to and switch between the live output of the mixing desk,conventional 16 bit digital, the latest and greatest 20 bit converter, and finally to DSD. The DSD WAS SO MUCH CLOSER TO THE LIVE SIGNAL than either PCM converter that it was OBVIOUS this was a direction I really wanted to pursue.

Lander
Do you feel DSD solves the problems inherent in PCM?

TOM JUNG
It does. I'm finding after all these years that, when I listen to an SACD, especially things that I record, where before I'd probably only listen from a quality perspective and not really be able to get into the music that much, [now] I'll listen to the whole thing. It draws you in, much like ANALOG did, but without the ANALOG problems. :)

Therefore Upsampling the basic redbook cd to 192khz would also benefit the listener to a marked improvement in terms of sonic qualities. Now the CD layer on the Hybrid SACD is recorded in it's basic PCM allowing the disc to be enjoyed in any basic CD player. You also have the luxury of listening to the Hybrid SACD in either Stereo or multi-channel mode depending on what application may be available to you cool eh :)

Here are some of the latest on Blu-Ray for your perusal:

Dec 24, 2004 - JVC Develops Blu-ray/DVD Combo Disc Technology

Victor Company of Japan, Ltd. (JVC) today announced that it has developed the world's first Blu-ray/DVD combo disc technology, which opens the way for the emergence of video releases containing content in both Blu-ray and DVD formats on a single disc. The new combo disc, which has a total storage capacity of 33.5GB (25GB BD-ROM, 8.5GB DVD), uses a triple layer structure made possible by the development of a proprietary high-performance reflective film that reflects the blue laser used for Blu-ray, but is transparent to the red laser used for DVDs. JVC will forward a proposal to the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) to have the technology accepted as a specification for future commercialization. The company is also working on a Blu-ray/DVD combo disc with an even larger 58.5GB (50GB BD-ROM, 8.5GB DVD) storage capacity.

Read more: JVC

Hope this helps :)

SC

Hey SoFtCliPpEr
I got that Stereophile issue, mabasa nga uli mamaya hehehe :lol:
Last edited by Donlovejoy on Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Donlovejoy
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Quezon City

Postby SoFtCliPpEr » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:17 pm

JackD201 wrote:SACD and DVD-A are the future. CD is the present, LP is the past. The whole problem is that we are in that nexus caused not by the lack of technology but by the realities of economics. I do hope there are more people to carry the torch for the much improved digital formats, for the simple reason that with a small market base we'll have fewer titles to chose from. At this point we may have CDs for a much longer time than we would like much like flying in a 40 year old 747, when tech could have given us supersonic widebodies 20 years ago.


I could never have said it better!! :) Amen
SoFtCliPpEr
 

Postby SoFtCliPpEr » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:45 pm

Image

Heard any good ones lately?
This DTS encoded DVD-Audio album of Steve Stevens Flamenco Ago-Go, former guitarist for Billy Idol is guaranteed to blow your mind away!!!

The sound is absolutely incredible. The DTS 5.1 encoding was simply amazing. The Stereophonic signature of the instruments will indeed make your head turn. For best results I listened to it with my THX 7.1 Musicmode although the standard 5.1 setup will more than accquit itself as well. Give yourself and your DVD player a real treat. If your still in limbo as far as DVD-Audio capabilities are concerned this album will prove to be a sound buy for starters.

Enjoy!!
SC
Last edited by SoFtCliPpEr on Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SoFtCliPpEr
 

Postby jo2 » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:57 pm

Donlovejoy,

Thanks!

SoFtCliPpEr,

Thanks!

Next question.

Have you noticed and compared the 2-channel over the Multichannel?

EX. Carol Kidd - Nice Work

Ray Brown Trio - Live at LOA

Aaron Neville - Nature boy

What do you think? Not the same, isn't it.

I tried and never like the MULTICHANNEL!

BTW, My current favorite DSD recordings

Antiphone Blues ( Arne Domnerus Gustav Sjokvist)

Autumn in Seattle( Tsuyoshi Yamamoto,Ken Kaneko,
Toshio Osumi)

A Song for You Karen ( Jeremy Monterio, Eric Sneider,
Paul Martin, Tim Davis & SG Jacintha)


One thing good about DSD is SEPERATION OF INSTRUMENTS IN SPACE.

You can differentiate individual notes. :wink:
User avatar
jo2
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:59 am
Location: Malapit kina Mang Enteng

Postby jo2 » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:21 pm

Also,

Chie Ayado's Time & To You albums

and

Audiophile Jazz Prologue Part01 & Part02.

Vocals in these recordings just a teeny bit bright but fills my room without any hint of compression! :wink:
User avatar
jo2
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:59 am
Location: Malapit kina Mang Enteng

Postby conspicuous » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:21 pm

i was wondering if anyone has auditioned or read reviews on the onkyo dv-sp502 universal player? its price is around 21k. earlier i was looking at the onkyo dv-sp1000 (>100k!) and dv-sp800 (around 70k). the sp502 price of 21k now makes it an interesting choice for acquisition.

i also looked at the denon universal players as well. but i read mixed reviews. auditioning is always best but i'd like to hear from other people as part of the evaluation.

thanks.
User avatar
conspicuous
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:33 pm
Location: San Pedro, Laguna

Postby Donlovejoy » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:26 am

Hi Jo2;

I only have 10 SACD titles

Jacinta - Automn Leaves
Various Artist - Top Gun Movie Soundtrack
Various Artist - Footloose Movie Sound
Vivaldi - Four Seasons
Leopold Stokowski - Rhapsodies
Ana Caram - Hollywood in Rio
Michael Jackson - Thriller
Livingston Taylor - Ink
Toto - Toto IV
Phil Woods


I listen to them at 2 channel stereo Mode :o
User avatar
Donlovejoy
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Quezon City

Postby SoFtCliPpEr » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:12 pm

jo2 wrote:Donlovejoy,

Thanks!

SoFtCliPpEr,

Thanks!

Next question.

Have you noticed and compared the 2-channel over the Multichannel?

EX. Carol Kidd - Nice Work

Ray Brown Trio - Live at LOA

Aaron Neville - Nature boy

What do you think? Not the same, isn't it.

I tried and never like the MULTICHANNEL!

BTW, My current favorite DSD recordings

Antiphone Blues ( Arne Domnerus Gustav Sjokvist)

Autumn in Seattle( Tsuyoshi Yamamoto,Ken Kaneko,
Toshio Osumi)

A Song for You Karen ( Jeremy Monterio, Eric Sneider,
Paul Martin, Tim Davis & SG Jacintha)


One thing good about DSD is SEPERATION OF INSTRUMENTS IN SPACE.

You can differentiate individual notes. :wink:



jo2 thanks for your very good and relevant question.

Yes I have compared the sound of a single layered Stereo SACD from one which is multichannel ready or Hybrid. As I mentioned earlier I am inclined to like the single layered Stereo SACD's in my collection since the music I am getting from my Trivista stand alone SACD Stereo player has been very involving indeed.

However on many occassions I get to play the same Hybrid SACD on my multichannel set up ( Pioneer AX10i AV receiver/matching Elite 47ai Universal DVD player/Mission 782se fronts,780se rear,M70 surround back ,Volare 6C center channel and the ever so faithful Velodyne CHT15 subwoofer/ Wired by Eichmann Express6 interconnect cables supplied by arnoldc and Monster cable speaker wires/Samsung LCD monitor). The big surprise is that at times more so on LIVE albums the multichannel when properly set right gives a more convincing performance.

Listening to your favorite artists LIVE recording in multichannel doesn't mean you have done away and sacrificed the Stereophonic attributes in the recording. Actually you have simply gone a step and level higher by improving it! If you like U2 and Depeche Mode or Leonard Bernstein LIVE and experience that "being there" effect a reversal of having them in your room which is more fictional hehe, then quite simply the ambiance the multi channel setup can create is the way to go.

It is not true that the STEREO is gone if you listen to your music in multichannel, bro it's a lie..remember the extra speakers at the back merely covers the ambient decay and sound effects we all hear during a LIVE performance. On the otherhand the LFE or low frequency effects generated by the subwoofer will assure you of an honest to goodness reproduction of double bass in the orchestral works and deep organ crawls in your Antiphone Blues album which by the way I have both on CD and SACD. In simple terms now you don't just sit there and listen to the music..you feel it as well. This affords real time involvement to listening more enjoyable for it connects to your other senses. I like it when we say we hear the SENSIBLE SOUND.

The center or phantom channel in the system affords you the security of spot on middle imaging, one wherein you can almost pick on Diana Krall's nose in the soundstage hehe. However setup should be done right to achieve the best results, but once done you're in for a lifetime experience beyond your wildest dream. I would be willing to assist you in anyway should the occassion arise, in the meantime enjoy the DIGITAL life.

SC
SoFtCliPpEr
 

Postby SoFtCliPpEr » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:42 pm

Donlovejoy wrote:Hi Jo2;

I only have 10 SACD titles

Jacinta - Automn Leaves
Various Artist - Top Gun Movie Soundtrack
Various Artist - Footloose Movie Sound
Vivaldi - Four Seasons
Leopold Stokowski - Rhapsodies
Ana Caram - Hollywood in Rio
Michael Jackson - Thriller
Livingston Taylor - Ink
Toto - Toto IV
Phil Woods


I listen to them at 2 channel stereo Mode :o


Don't worry if you buy a Hybrid as well you can still get the same satisfying results by playing them on stereo mode the added future proof advantage of someday listening to your music in multichannel won't hurt.

There are also more titles to choose from on the Hybrid catalog. I have that Toto IV aside from some choice cuts i.e Africa, I would like to hear it in multichannel as well. :)

SC
SoFtCliPpEr
 

Postby JackD201 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:40 pm

If we were to factor in the current trends in the tech sector, what may very well be the future of audio is the hard disk. Hard Disks are becoming faster, smaller in size, and larger in capacity every year. ( see the evolution of the iPOD and their ilk) They have also become sturdier and a lot quieter. Microsoft has already announced support for a 24/192 filetype and broadband speeds are climbing as well. The killer is anybody with a computer will be able to just download hi-rez from the net the same way millions are doing now for the millions of AAC titles at the apple itunes store. As storage costs decrease so will the download fees. No more format war because the play out end will be open. My crystal ball foresees computers hooked up to a new generation of hi-end DACs. At Present my Powerbook via Protools is 24/96 recording and playback capable already and for "only" $450, inclusive of editing and mastering functionality. It may in fact bypass DVD-A, SACD, and Blue Ray for the simple reason that costs for the record companies will be so much less because they get to bypass the replication stage.
User avatar
JackD201
Immortal
 
Posts: 10024
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:10 am
Location: Bozania

PreviousNext

Return to Digital

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest