MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

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MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:14 am

Has anyone tried the cheap Muse NOS DAC with 4 TDA1543 chips in it? All I can say is wow! Sulit! It sounds smooth yet alive and very coherent without any annoying lower treble harshness typical of many cheap dacs.

Here is a link of some comments about them

http://www.head-fi.org/t/514782/bryston ... c-reviewed

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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby edwin » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:42 am

I am currently using a Valab using 8pcs of TDA1543 chips. Very organic sounding. This is so far the most liked DAC i have ever tried. You Muse should have the same signature as my Valab.

My upgraded Valab using better parts. Oscon for digital, Nichicon for powersupply, Schottky diodes, Obligato for output and Kiwame for I/V.
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Try upgrading the muse with better parts and also use a better power supply. I did a powersupply for my media player to play my flac files on my system and it made a nigh and day difference.

My diy powersupply using LT1084 regulator and the best parts combo i could get.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:06 pm

I had a stock Valab before and there is a similarity except the stock valab had some hum and noise that is not present here so I actually prefer this to my old stock valab here

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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby karlcastillo » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:23 pm

Is the Muse locally available?
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:37 pm

I have no idea if its available locally. Ebay is the place to get them so far as I know
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby karlcastillo » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:46 pm

Thanks.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby edwin » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:14 am

donunus wrote:I had a stock Valab before and there is a similarity except the stock valab had some hum and noise that is not present here so I actually prefer this to my old stock valab here

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Where did you get your new version Valab? This one i got is the older version.

Yes i think the only place to get the muse is in Ebay.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:10 am

I can't remember the exact seller but it was from ebay.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby n_dot » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:54 am

donunus wrote:I can't remember the exact seller but it was from ebay.


I don`t know if this is same Valab in the topic but check it out Vintage Audio Lab based in Taiwan ebay seller...

http://www.ebay.ph/itm/Valab-WM8741-24b ... 2442wt_906

About the Muse, sir donunus how will this compare with the model with USB input?
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby jomar » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:52 pm

edwin wrote:I am currently using a Valab using 8pcs of TDA1543 chips. Very organic sounding. This is so far the most liked DAC i have ever tried. You Muse should have the same signature as my Valab.

My upgraded Valab using better parts. Oscon for digital, Nichicon for powersupply, Schottky diodes, Obligato for output and Kiwame for I/V.
Image

Try upgrading the muse with better parts and also use a better power supply. I did a powersupply for my media player to play my flac files on my system and it made a nigh and day difference.

My diy powersupply using LT1084 regulator and the best parts combo i could get.
Image
Image


Heard this DAC and his new PSU creation . A good powersupply really improves the SQ specially gears using Wall Wart psu .. Walang binatbat yong KINGREX psu that costs usd $350 !!!! ;)
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:54 am

n_dot wrote:
donunus wrote:I can't remember the exact seller but it was from ebay.


I don`t know if this is same Valab in the topic but check it out Vintage Audio Lab based in Taiwan ebay seller...

http://www.ebay.ph/itm/Valab-WM8741-24b ... 2442wt_906

About the Muse, sir donunus how will this compare with the model with USB input?


I didn't know that there was a muse tda1543 based dac with USB input.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby Voltraizer » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:30 am

so far, all ebay search i did , yielded results of muse tda 1543 dac models without usb input
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSE-MINI-TDA15 ... 3ccc09e4bc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSE-Mini-HiFi- ... 2ec0add37a
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSE-Digital-HI ... 35beb4867b


what is interesting here is the claim that the DIR9001 digital receiver has better quality than the CS 8412/14 chips which is the receiver ic found in most DIY NOS DAC and commercially available NOS DACs like the scott nixon and even the 47 lab shigaraki dac...the manufacturer of the chips may have found some way to reduce jitter in their design.

Due to ultra-low jitter DIR9001, it provides clear and natural sound. And DIR9001 is one of the lowest jitter DAC in the market. Absolutely a replacement of CS8414、CS8412CP.

and valab nos dac 8x tda1543 is also using the same DIR9001 receiver chip.btw, this model has usb input!
note that the valab has four more tda chips than the muse.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-TDA1543-N ... 0691021673
vintage_audio_lab wrote:]Keep most accurate digital signal and feed to TDA1543 in low jitter fashion.
1. DIR9001 digital receiver is the answer for this propose. DIR9001 is a new modern IC, much more expensive than that popular CS8412/4/6 used in all other DAC. Much more music details keep and accurate sound you obtain.

2. Paralleling DAC chips.
We parallel up to 8 TDA1543 chips as you see on Fig. 4. 8 paralleling did enhance performance, get better resolution and lower output impedance.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:39 pm

yah my valab had a USB in put like the picture above. Its the muse which is was wondering about whether they had one with usb. Anyway, I prefer using the toslink output of my laptop anyways. less lag with WASAPI
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby Voltraizer » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:10 pm

if you CTTOI, Muse @ $50-$70 is a good buy with four tda chips in combo with the low jitter DIR9001. ..@ that pricepoint, the coax & optical input are good enuf for me too...
just partner it with an upgraded PS and i think iyou have a giant killer.
for diyer's, the new production DIR9001 receiver ic will be the practical choice and good partner for philips TDA1543 (single or in parallel)
since CS8412-14 are old chips that r becoming htf nowadays .
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:46 pm

Its definitely a very nice DAC. Better than the Valab for me. I even like this more than the highly praised centrace dacport LX
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby Voltraizer » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:40 pm

some interesting read from the net regarding the valab nos dac Mk1 lux ver ;)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valab-TDA1543-N ... 0691021673
ebay seller vintage_audio_lab wrote:Valab TDA1543 NOS USB Re-Clock DAC MK-1 Luxury Version $260
Image
Why non-oversampling DAC? ------ 'oversampling' kill music!

You may not know, the actual digital signal recorded on your CD title is 16bit/44.1k format. Yes, never doubt it! Then why almost all modern DAC feature 24bit/96k or even 192k specification? In modern digital recoding studio, music will be recorded in new 24bit/192k format but when they need to 'write' onto CD, these information rich formation must be degraded into old format. These 'New' DACs will try 'restore' the degraded back to more informative format using some talent algorithm work out by smart mathematician. ----- That is problem! why? All music you hear from CD will be processed by some smart algorithm, then you hear the artifact sound ---- actually bad sound!

My over-opinion? No! If you are a experienced audiophiles, you will find if these cd players or DACs use the same dac chip inside, they all will have very closer sound features, even their analog circuits designs are quite different. Why? You hear the same artifact derived from the same talent algorism.

These artifacts contamination did hurt your audio enjoyment! Why, they mask real tone color and even 'atmosphere' of music player. You do not believe!? Try to find CD records which also have vinyl LP version, compare music from vinyl and CD. You will know how bad these artifact sound is!


I

Valab Non-Oversampling USB DAC using TDA1543 --- Ultra low jitter version with dual 1ppm tcxo inside
#10 revision Re-clock and Enhence Power Supply version
Why non-oversampling DAC? ------ 'oversampling' kill music!



Back to vinyl record?

No! Vinyl LP really too troublesome! Listening music should be easy and relaxing.

Non-oversampling DAC is a compromise answer.

NOS-DACs may be an acceptable answer to CD music. Why? No artifact anymore from these NOS-DACs. You get non-refined music recorded on CD although it is still a degraded music. But in my experience, it is still much better than artifact juck.
Why? 'modern' dac can not De novo generate right music signal from degraded records on CD, but rather add mathematical generated fill-in bits into your music.
So NOS-DAC is a can-not-but choice!


VALAB NOS-DAC TDA1543 --- simple elegance

All NOS-DACs are simple. because these old NOD dac chips are so small and simple IC with few pins and only need simple circuit to work well.

TDA-1543 may be the most small but tough one. It is a real vintage chip developed by Philips 2 decades ago. We choose it to implement our own NOS-DAC.

No special innovation on this chip for it is too simple. What we should do is try to extrapolate its most potential! How?

1. Keep most accurate digital signal and feed to TDA1543 in low jitter fashion.
DIR9001 digital receiver is the answer for this propose. DIR9001 is a new modern IC, much more expensive than that popular CS8412/4/6 used in all other DAC. Much more music details keep and accurate sound you obtain.

2. Paralleling DAC chips.
We parallel up to 8 TDA1543 chips as you see on Fig. 4. 8 paralleling did enhance performance, get better resolution and lower output impedance.

3. Profuse power supply
30W sealed military grade power transformer was used in this DAC, it can offer up to 15 times required electronic power. No vibration, heating from this transformer. In rectification circuit, we use best sound 1n5062 diode, this is most credit diode which is popular in audio tweaking. It do signicifantly improve sound quality, more smooth and natural sound. Expensive LT1084 5A voltage regulator and Rubycon capacitor were used in power supply section to offer clean and low drop voltage to tda1543 and dir9001 chips.

4. USB receiving for computer based source
We incoporate USB receiving capicity to our new version of 1543dac. Unlike other USB dac use pcm170x chip which integrate USB reciving and dac in one chip, which is very low cost and low performance. Our approach of USB DAC use very decicate design, using independent USB receiving chip and get I2S digital signal feed into TDA1543 chip.

5. Precision Clock
In order to get best quality digital signal for TDA1543 chip, we integrate independ precision clocing and redata circuit for digital reciving. You will nerver find any commercial NOS DAC have so dedicate digital design. No matter what price they sell! We inverst our best efforts to extrapolate potential of TDA1543 chip. Our implementation may be best TDA1543 based DAC in market.
We custom order 1ppm 12.0000Mhz TCXO for our most update version to fulfill our promise for building best sound NOS DAC.
In Figure 3, 4 and 8 are our new expensive precision 1ppm 12.0Mhz TCXO, it will be basel part in this dac.
This muxt be most effective and expensive upgrade we ever applied on this product.

6. After several month of selling this dac, we accumulate many know how in parts choice from our customers. Key components usage list below.
a. First stage filtering capacitors: Three Rubycon XYF 1000u/35v Long Life/Low impedance 105 degree C tolerance
b. Decoupling capacitors for digital circuit chips: Eight PSC-470uf 16V solid polymer (os-con) Low ESR/Low impedance 105 degree C tolerance http://www.chemi-con.com/files/PSC.pdf
c. Decoupling capacitors for TDA1543 chips: Eight NEC TOKIN 10uf/25v SMD type capacitors, one for each tda1543 chip
d. Adjustive capacitors for voltage regulator: Two Rubycon XYF 25uf/25v Long Life/Low impedance 105 degree C tolerance
e. Analog output output capacitor: Two metal can Tantanium 10uf/16v
f. Digital input coupling capacitor : Two metal can oil filled 0.01uf/200v

7. 2009 new version with new layout by Taradac research group, significantly shorten signal path and use chassis chassis as heatsink, it will have much better heat dissipation efficiency, keepping dac chip cooler and long time stable.

8. New 2009 March version without clipping/distorsion in high output digital records.

9. New re-clock circuit was added on this dac. I2S bus data from both cm108 usb receiver or dir9001 (both usb and spdif signal) was re-clocked and then feed into dac chip. This re-clock module use 1ppm 33.8688 tcxo and indendent power supply voltage regulator to get best recolck performance.

10. New off-board R-core power supply transformer and build in EMI filter offering profuse and clean power supply for this dac. This is new design make this dac can achieve less than 5mv noise altitude. More detail, headroom and vivid sound you can hear!

11. Dimension of this dac is 125x 220x 50 mm (W x L x H)

This dac use tda1543 chip, it is a 'vintage' dac chip which was developed 20 years ago. Its signal/noise ratio is about 90db. Modern dac chip always have over 110db S/N value or higher. So this dac will not be a dead quiet dac like your modern cd player! You will hear minor noise, major from right channel. It is not a defect or poor building quality. It is theoretical limitation, no way to remove noise without remove music signal. This noise will not audible when misic is playing. So actually it really do not interfere your music listening. I ever try to use some filter to remove this noise, but also remove vivid and analog sound of this dac. So I decide to keep minor noise but make this dac a great musical and natural sound device.

If you can not agree any noise from dac, please do not buy this dac. This dac only for someone appreciate it.
It use dac chip developed 20 years ago, it is a real vintage audio device. So before your order, please make sure what you will get.
You can query google for 'valab nos dac'. You will see what it is.

This is not a high cost DAC, because very few parts required. We sell itab at low price. Actually no even cheaper DAC in audio market can you find. While it may be very indispensable equipment in your audio system. If you get used to sound of NOS-DAC. You will 100% agree what I say 'artifact junk' about these modern dac or cd player.

This simple and small NOS-DAC do have most delicate design and very very good parts choice. You can take it to compete other much much expensive DACs of your friends. You will be very happy.


Why we develop this #10 revision version? Sometimes we got 'ship-back' dacs, their buyer clain this dac have humming noise! While in our audio system and equipments, no audible noise and measured noise less than 10mv or less. We were confused to this trouble for long time. :D
Finally we know the real problem, home electric power of some users were very poor, without right grounding and full of noise. So we develop this enhanced power supply version with noise-resistance/low-coupling power supply and add an EMI power filter.
This new design make our #10 version become bigger and heavier than previous version but it do show high resistance to poor quality power supply.

We will keep selling #9 revision version, if your home power supply is good or you have power conditioner in your audio system. You do not spent more money to this $10 revision version, #9 version is right choice for you.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:05 am

It seems like I should have gotten the luxury version. My valab did sound better when plugged in the living room vs my bedroom though. No hum at the living room. Also I had a stax system before that i sold due to a hum that was present only when plugged into my bedroom's plug. No hum anywhere else. This just confirms that my bedroom's power is sub-par.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby jomar » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:15 am

donunus wrote:It seems like I should have gotten the luxury version. My valab did sound better when plugged in the living room vs my bedroom though. No hum at the living room. Also I had a stax system before that i sold due to a hum that was present only when plugged into my bedroom's plug. No hum anywhere else. This just confirms that my bedroom's power is sub-par.


I think thats the reason why they have the revision 10 or latest version with power supply filter.
Having a power conditioner or proper grounding should also eliminate the hum problem.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby Voltraizer » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:46 am

jomar wrote:
donunus wrote:It seems like I should have gotten the luxury version. My valab did sound better when plugged in the living room vs my bedroom though. No hum at the living room. Also I had a stax system before that i sold due to a hum that was present only when plugged into my bedroom's plug. No hum anywhere else. This just confirms that my bedroom's power is sub-par.


I think thats the reason why they have the revision 10 or latest version with power supply filter.
Having a power conditioner or proper grounding should also eliminate the hum problem.

you got it right , bro!

vintage_audio_lab wrote:<snp>
Finally we know the real problem, home electric power of some users were very poor, without right grounding and full of noise. So we develop this enhanced power supply version with noise-resistance/low-coupling power supply and add an EMI power filter. This new design make our #10 version become bigger and heavier than previous version but it do show high resistance to poor quality power supply.
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Re: MUSE TDA1543x4 DAC

Postby donunus » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:15 pm

I don't have a power conditioner, I only have a voltage regulator and it didn't seem to help with the hum much. Anyways, happy na ako sa Muse for less money. Its smooth and musical and doesn't seem to be lacking in anything I consider important for listening to music. Of course, I haven't tried comparing them with $2k plus DACs but of course for that price I would expect to get better sound :)
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