Which PC based digital player sounds best ?

[Gino]

The planets must be aligning. I have a sister in SG.

[deist1]

Perfect sir! try it out, for about 6K PHP it's really bang for the buck

here's an actual pic of my small but mighty ODAC:

[TheAnalogSource]

may i ask in what way one player is better than the others...

i've just catalog my digital music and created my first playlist. tried windows media player, itunes and foobar2000. sent signal thru line out of pc ->luxman l400 ->dalhquist dq8. seems they are all the same. could not distinguish one between the other. a very little difference with WMP a little rounder and forgiving while the foobar crispier and the itunes somewhere in between. dont know though if its just psychological after reading this thread.

im planning to add an external dac later but just want to mess up with the player first. my test tracks were cd rips into mp3 at 320kbps.

[Gino]

It is sop for os producers to optimize their apps for system efficiency. Sadly they make compromizes in code to preserve system resources. This not ideal for audio processing. Amarra for example use so much from my Mac that my mac could do little else when playing music. Better players employ methods that are less compromised with focus on fidelity.

[TheAnalogSource]

actually im more interested in sonic output differences rather than software technicalities. so if reading back, foobar is more hi-fi than wmp? would it be why im getting a more or less equal sonic character is because of my hardware configuration. would adding the external dac reveal the differences between the players....i'll be using the minimax dac+ btw.

[Gino]

i cannot speak for those specific players. On a highly resolving system some players I've tried do sound different at times. Yes a very good dac will reveal more and may expose strengths and weaknesses of each player. It is very probable that your pc's soundcard is your bottle neck. As such yes, it may be the reason your players sound the same. granted the rest of the system isn't choked.

[the porcupine]

AFAIK, almost all players should sound the same. At least that's what the developer of Foobar2000 and everyone over at hydrogen audio are saying.

Having used Foobar2000 and JRiver Media Center 18 for quite some time now, I did notice a difference in sound quality between the two in my system. JRMC sounds a bit more trebly and detailed than fb2k. It turns out that with JRMC, all audio is processed in 64-bits internally prior to being outputted to whatever bit depth and sampling rate the software is set at. This might be the reason behind the difference sound signature.

[Gino]

I gave Foobar a spin tonight. I installed it on an HP Mini 210 netbook. I hooked it up to my home system through the headphone jack. I coudn't get it to rip flac yet so I let it play cds. Very nice. Holographic.

I cannot directly compare it with Amarra because the dac of the HP is different from the Mac's. Playing cds using the same superdrive, I can say that the Foobar setup is at par or better than the Amarra setup. I have yet to AB them properly.

[TheAnalogSource]

exactly why i compare players on same machine and setup with the same tracks...so the variable is the player alone. will try to use the minimax this week to find out if the pc soundcard is missing something.

[JoeyGS]

Hi Noly,

Normally with high-end USB dacs will provide you with the best output and that is only the time that you can compare software performance. You are right when you notice that there are no differences when you tested. It only shows that the hardware is not at high resolution level.

Now, if mid-end dacs are used, the jitter and noise coming out of the computer USB needs to be eliminated so that you will have clean digital signal going into your mid-end dac. Also, your computer needs to be fanless and if possible utilize SSD for your operating system.

Just sharing my experience.

Regards,
JoeyGS

[TheAnalogSource]

hi Joey, what level are we talking when you say hi-end dac? i hope that is somewhere very much lower than the dCS products. How about rega dac level? pwede hi-end na?

actually, im pretty happy with the output even with just the line out of the computer direct to the amp input. most likely i dont know what jitters and noises are so i think ill stay away with the computer upgrades for now. i can see that changing hardware will give improvement but my interest for now is as i think the main topic infers that there is differences in output of different player.

while im at it, what could be the cheapest dac i could get to hear the differences in those media players?

[dimfer]

one thing to consider if you are going the HPTC way is getting a really good soundcard, like the Lynx L22. For the same money, I think it will compete with any external DAC based setup. Mark Porzilli told me that USB is more jittered than most people realize.

I just overhauled my server (MP64) and think it sound more analog like now, even with the lowly RBCD upsampled to 32/44 wav playing at 64 bit architecture

[JoeyGS]

Yes, Hi-end dacs means dcs and the like.

I would say rega dac is mid-end and would benefit from clean USB power supplies, such as iFi USB Power - http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html. When you say 'puwede na', I would interpret it as 'kung puwede ko nang i-retire ang audiophile cd player ko'. Without the USB power treatment, hindi pa puwede.....

Any cheap to mid-end dac will need the clean USB power treatment so that you can hear the differences in those media players. Just take note that if your source hardware (say your PC) is noisy, any player may sound the same and its not the fault of the dac.

Cheap USB dacs out there with good reviews:
1. Super pro
2. Schitt Modi
3. Dragonfly
4. Musiland 03
5. M2Tech hiface dac
6. iFi iDac
If my memory serves me right #1 is cheapest

Again, the above is based on my own personal experience.....

hi Joey, what level are we talking when you say hi-end dac? i hope that is somewhere very much lower than the dCS products. How about rega dac level? pwede hi-end na?

actually, im pretty happy with the output even with just the line out of the computer direct to the amp input. most likely i dont know what jitters and noises are so i think ill stay away with the computer upgrades for now. i can see that changing hardware will give improvement but my interest for now is as i think the main topic infers that there is differences in output of different player.

while im at it, what could be the cheapest dac i could get to hear the differences in those media players?

[timber715]

Happy birthday Noli.
Welcome to the world of computer music
I heard the dcs vivaldi in a super system and it is truly amazing.
I got a w4s dac2 in the market and am willing to visit you and your shop one of these days. If you got another dac to compare it to it would be nice para maka a-b ka.
I could also bring my laptop para may source to test... Medyo tweaked na kasi yun with music on it na rin.
Let me know, no commitment asked... Gusto ko lang makita shop mo and meet you in person

Cheers

[Gino]

I am using Android Foobar2000 Controller. Latest Foobar2000 on the pc. When I choose an album folder (Files tab), it lists the songs alphabetically. How do I make it list by track number?

I am liking this pc setup. The system is more responsive using the Android remote. No bugs. Sound out of the HP Mini 210-1000 headphone jack (HP also refers to this as lineout) is very good. The netbook has no fan. Runs really hot so I elevated it. 200gb extra hdd space should be plenty for my files.

[TheAnalogSource]

i just realized that i have the specs joey indicated. my acer p3 , i believe, is fanless and uses ssd so will install the media players here to compare.
thanks for the ifi suggestion, may i ask where to buy locally? i believe cleaning the usb data stream is a big help. initially was looking at firewire through safire said to be better but guess the clean usb is easier to implement especially in windows system.

thanks timber for the offer. i am familiar with how the high end dacs sound very good. having listened to some.. dCS, audio aero, ml to name a few. nakakatawa nga dialog ng meron at mga magdedemo, something like these....tunog analog na dba....para plaka lang noh hehe but that is another topic altogether. Im sure your dac sounds as good as well.

however let me redirect the discussion to the main topic on which PC based media player sounds best. my initial setup maybe is not revealing enough to let me see the difference between players. will be reconfiguring system later on. so instead, let me ask those of you who have compared players on the same configuration. what is the sonic differences between players and why one is better than the other. being an audio forum, i would assume that we will be talking about sonic superiority. we leave software design or interface discussion to programming forum.

[JoeyGS]

The iFi USB Power and Gemini Twin Head Cable is currently available in Singapore and Hong Kong. No local distributors yet. Hope someone would bring it in. IFi Audio is backed up by AMR-Audio (Abbingdon Music Research of UK)

[timber715]

Sonic difference between foobar and jriver is very minimal if any imo. And with equalizers, room correction and lot of other features makes the difference irrelevant. I find that the features, ease of use and interface to be of more importance. Both players have a pcm to dsd feature which is very nice to have. Yes you can now play all your music as dsd even if your files aren't. Do they sound good? For me it sounds much better than upsampled pcm files but you should hear it yourself.
Personally I prefer the jriver mc19 bec of what I mentioned. Control and features are well thought of though foobar is free I find jriver to be a bargain with what they put in.
Regarding tunog plaka, I don't think digital audio will ever sound like a turntable system. They do have their differences in sonics, but one can appreciate what each can bring to the table.
Hope this helps.

[TheAnalogSource]

exactly where im heading now timber. with my short experience that they sound all the same more or less, my final selection will more or less be based on the interface, options and add-ons.

just my asking if they are different because of what the topic infers. a lot have responded with a sonically better player so i assume there are differences between each of them soundwise atleast something qualitative and/or quantitative.

[timber715]

Am only aware that the Jriver was designed to have a flat as possible response. With a simple throw of a switch on the equalizer and the two players should sound the same. The last time I tried to check the sonic difference I find foobar to be slightly leaning on the warmer side (i mean very slightly only compared to the jriver).
People prefer these things to be free like foobar, funny but even on computeraudiophile, members tend to use jriver more...