A-B'ed SACD vs. XRCD Yesterday

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A-B'ed SACD vs. XRCD Yesterday

Postby rtsyrtsy » Fri Feb 14, 2003 6:07 am

Had a meeting at Ortigas yesterday and got to check AVDI over lunch.

On their >PhP80k Marantz SACD player, VTL (hybrid) Reference pre-amp, Mark Levinson Power amp, Parsifal speakers, some $$$ looking cables (I'm not being too gear specific now, am I?), I was able to play Jacintha's Here's To Ben on XRCD vs. SACD.

The XRCD that I am familiar with sounded good: creamy, little of the digital nasties, great stage/depth/image, etc.

But the SACD is something else. Resolution is amazing (brushes on cymbals, variatiions on drum skin, Jacintha's inflections, etc.). There was more of everything: wider stage, deeper, more definition, more open bandwidth-wise.

It had a similar impact on me as when I first heard vinyl. I'm not saying it sounds like analog, mind you. It just left me an eerily similar impression.

The XRCD had a more sorted out sound, slightly more refined overall presentation. I'm not sure if it's the XRCD process or if I'm just more used to it than the SACD version.

Whatever it is, high resolution digital is without doubt something to watch. Despite $$$ and limited software, it's worth it to keep an eye on this new kid on the block.
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SACD

Postby ambel » Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:36 am

I did an early plunge on SACD that was 2 years ago got the
Sony SCD-777ES and I see the promise but the bummer is
software are expensive and very limited. The catalog is getting better but
still expensive. We did AB it with analog and I will choose analog
any day of the week. You hear more inner detail with analog and a
more natural sound. My current player is the Philips SACD 1000 and the
el cheapo Sony SCD-CE775. The Philips replaced the Sony 9000ES
which replaced the 777ES which took forever to load the disc. what a
pain in the butt. And most of my SACD disc I have it on analog after
2 years I only got 20 SACD's, 10 XRCD, 200 CD's versus my record
collection which is at least 1200.
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Postby rtsyrtsy » Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:58 am

I got to try 2 Marantz players. A ~PhP80k model and another more expensive model. Neither had issues about TOC loading, track searching, etc.

Racio, you heard it after I did. Might you remember the specific models? Care sharing your thoughts?

Like Ambel, my bet is on analog vs. SACD provided they are at the same price range. I forgot to mention that my first exposure to decent analog was a Joy-cleaned record played on a used Rega Planar using a Foreplay Pre, ST-70, Missions m71's, and Ixos cabling. The system I heard SACD with yesterday was easily in the PhP2mn range. And both systems left similar impressions on me!

I am not in anyway endorsing a plunge to SACD today. I'm just saying it's exciting enough to keep an open mind for. In fact, for me, now may be the best time to "invest" in what can be potentially my last redbook CD player. ;-)
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Postby ambel » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:49 am

Marantz player i.e Philips do not have the problem with reading the
discs. It's those Sony SCD-1 and SCD-777ES that took forever but
one thing they are excellent in SACD and a good transport to boot.
But for me I still go for analog and planning to add another TT
leaning towards the Nottingham Spacedeck.
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Postby rtsyrtsy » Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:41 pm

Going off topic on a thread I started (and in a forum I moderate I think, he-he)...you're not the first one I know drooling over one of those Nottingham decks.

Anyone has one Pinoydiophiles can hear? :P
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SACD vs XRCD2 vs LP

Postby Racio » Sat Feb 15, 2003 5:04 pm

rtsyrtsy wrote:Racio, you heard it after I did. Might you remember the specific models? Care sharing your thoughts?


I only chanced upon the unit outside AVDI's listening room/theatre. I believe it was the Marantz 8215 or somethin'. I was only able to listen to the Getz/Gilberto SACD that I bought from 'em that day, and yes, typical of SACDs, there was definitely more air, texture, dynamism and soundstage width than your run off the mill CDs (or XRCD2s for that matter). It had a consistency that made it neutral as neutral can be, albeit w/ a hint of sterility and a slight dose of electronic etch. As ever, equipment matching is vital 'coz I'd really cower at the thought of allying this format w/ hard and cold sounding audio gear (needless to say, some valve taming should be in order).

Like Ambel, my bet is on analog vs. SACD provided they are at the same price range.
-snipped-


As w/ Erik here, I did a similar test w/ my own gear, specifically, a Sony 700V SACDP (a model lower than Erik's), MF A3/24 upsampling DAC and an Oracle Delphi mk4 (w/ an RB300 and CA Aurum Beta Wood thru an MF XLP phonostage). Using the same artist and album title (Jacintha-"Autumn Leaves") in the 3 formats (CD, SACD, & LP) left me quite a definitive (yet personal) "aural perspective" of how unique they are from each other.

Ghastly as it may seem to some, the upsampled XRCD2 sounded warmer, softer and relaxed (I like your term "creamy" btw) than SACDs, 'coz to my ears, the newest format has somehow stretched the upper frequency zenith further. And it displayed competence in the bottom-end as well, it was fuller and heftier relative to the older digital format. Fine minute details and slight nuances were even more vivid. I was actually taken aback when I heard faint ivory keys being softly pressed while listening to Jacintha's poignant acappela intro (as what I thought it was) on "Moonriver", because those frail notes never occurred to me while listening to both CD and LP versions of the same song (well that's unless you crank the pot all the way up). With the two older formats, I only discerned the last two soft piano chords right before the blare of the full piano piece.

My vinyl spinner OTOH, though it didn't quite match the openness and outright resolution of SACDs, nor was it able to attain the same frequency extremes (JM did mention that the culprit behind all these might be the sonic limitations of my MM cart or my phonostage), it nevertheless resolved space and soundstage depth better, and held a firm grip on its throne w/ its rather organic texture and natural flow, w/c of course, rendered a more laissez-faire listening experience (yah gotto luv that!). :wink:
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Postby ambel » Sun Feb 16, 2003 3:18 am

Racio,

JM is right it's that MM cart that basically restricting your analog set-up.
My buddy Ernie has the Clearaudio MM switch to Shure V15 after constanty
bugging him with it finally got the Denon DL103 MC cart. He was blown
away by the 103 and for step-up we use those Altec 15095A input mic
transformer. You don't to break the bank to have a very good MC cart.

Erik,
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Postby Racio » Mon Feb 17, 2003 1:04 pm

ambel wrote:Racio,

JM is right it's that MM cart that basically restricting your analog set-up.
My buddy Ernie has the Clearaudio MM switch to Shure V15 after constanty
bugging him with it finally got the Denon DL103 MC cart. He was blown
away by the 103 and for step-up we use those Altec 15095A input mic
transformer. You don't to break the bank to have a very good MC cart.

Erik,


Thanks for the tip Erik! I heard there are already several 103s incarnations over the years. The latest is the "R" version I believe. Rene had a NOS "C" version up for sale last year, but unfortunately, it slipped right under my nose (congratulations to that lucky fellah who brought it back to HK). Word is, the much sought after "D" version has already been hoarded by the Jap market, if so, would you know a viable source for 'em? I'd really appreciate it if you could you recommend an alternative version as well (the "R" perhaps)?

(Please bear w/ me for this OT Russ :) )
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Postby manila » Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:48 pm

rtsyrtsy wrote:I got to try 2 Marantz players. A ~PhP80k model and another more expensive model. Neither had issues about TOC loading, track searching, etc.

Racio, you heard it after I did. Might you remember the specific models? Care sharing your thoughts?



rtsy,
I know I am not racio... okay he is much more handsome and loaded with mucho dinero! :)
The SACD player at AVDI were the Marantz SA14 P80k+ and the more expensive Marantz SA12 which is about P108k! Unless you were talking about the Trivista SACD that was there last weekend? Sorry to cut in.. just can't stop myself from helping out. :)

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Postby Racio » Sun Feb 23, 2003 11:08 pm

manila wrote:rtsy,
I know I am not racio... okay he is much more handsome and loaded with mucho dinero! :)
The SACD player at AVDI were the Marantz SA14 P80k+ and the more expensive Marantz SA12 which is about P108k! Unless you were talking about the Trivista SACD that was there last weekend? Sorry to cut in.. just can't stop myself from helping out. :)

manila


Welcome to WS Jason! Thanks for clearing the model/designation mix-up.

Hey, me being (ahem) "handsome" would still be subject to some deliberation, but "mucho dinero"? Only mucho but no dinero mi amigo! :wink:
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