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Postby jadis » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:48 am

Image

A pair of Mullard 12AX7s, Long Plate 17mm. Very lush sounding,
very similar to the Mullard CV492s in tonal quality but a bit more laid
back in soundstage. O-getter with a cross bar getter is said to be manufactured in the late 50s.

Image

One the left is the CV492 short plate, and the right is the Long
Plate 12AX7. CV492 has gold pins with bluish cobalt tint while LP
has steel pins.

Some more shots of the Long plates, on white light..
Image
Image
Last edited by jadis on Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Noel » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:47 pm

hi jadis, would you care to comment on how you feel the mullard cv492 or the tele 803s would compare to some of the well regarded 5751 like the sylvania 5751 GB black plate or GE 5751 black plates.

sometime back i tried several tubes for my cdp including the tele 12ax7 (smooth and ribbed), svetlana 12ax7a, chinese 12ax7, sylvania 5751 GB grey plates, sylvania 5751 GB blk plates, GE 5751 5-star blk plates. i settled on the sylvania GB blk plates (the GE was my 2nd choice) but always wondered whether either the mullard cv492 (or the cv4004) or the tele803s would have suited me more.

what i liked about the sylvania blk plate over the others was its silky smooth midrange, overall clarity and balance. however i would still prefer if i can achieve some more resolution/detail.. but just don't know which tube (if there is one) could give this while maintaining the sylvania's strength. any thoughts appreciated.

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Postby jadis » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:55 pm

Hi Noel,

Great to hear from you. I have limited experience specifically with the 5751 types.
The only pair I ever used was the GE Blk Plates. And I used it in a power amp which uses
12AX7s. The sound is silky smooth as you mentioned, and very listenable, but the lower
gain, because of the lower mu inherent in its design, makes the noise level higher in my
system. Cranking up the gain yielded more noise which makes the sound a bit more grainy
in the overall texture. But otherwise, it is a fine tube.

I believe if you will plug a Tele803 in place of it, you will definitely find great improvement in clarity and transparency. My own feeling is like my ears have been
cleaned. The mid may not be as musical, or lush as other tubes but the extreme frequencies
are very well extended. The Mullard 492s on the other hand, plays the extremes down a little, it is extended too, but does not gives you a sizzling quality, prefect for bright sounding
systems. And the mid lushness is supreme, in fact, it is my favorite tube and I'm using
it presently in my line stage. I should say one cannot go wrong with this type.
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Postby Noel » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:27 pm

Thanks Jadis. Does your comment on the tele803 refer to the regular tele 12ax7's or the super rare (and expensive) 803s? The reason I ask is when I tried the regular tele 12ax7 (both ribbed and smooth plates) on my CDP I remember it was rather plain sounding. Audibly better than the chinese tubes but I recall not having the clarity and definition as the Sylvania or GE 5751. But given the price of a pair of these 803s it may just make more sense for me to replace the CDP.

I may just give the Mullard a try - do you know if the CV492 is any different sonically from the CV4004 w/c seems to be more available?
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Postby jadis » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:42 am

Hi Noel,

No, I would say that the Tele 803, and for that matter, the 80 series, belong to another
level than the standard ECC83s. They were manufactured at a certain quality standard, for
lesser noise, and longer life, and the German military would even commission Telefunken
to mark milspec tubes with the Falcon logo. They would not go into such trouble if they
would be similar with the ordinary ECC83 tubes.

I have moved from the Tele83s to the Mullard 83s and now to the Mullard CV492s. I
did not try any 4004s so far but my friends who did found the ordinary ECC83s of Mullard
to sound more lush in the mid than the 4004. I tried a 4003 and found it really to be even
more dry than a Tele82 in my line stage. If you are looking for very lush sound, the Mullard
ECC83s and the CV492s will be great for that. Or even the 10M ECC83s of Mullard will do the
same job. In Hongkong, the local folks love Mullards more than Teles, based on the shootout
reports they post. And I guess they all look for the lush midrange rather than the more extended character of the Teles, which have a more 'neutral' mid, ie, less lush. And I believe, that the 4004 sounds different from the commercial Mullard tubes, and different also
to the CV492 bec the 492 kind of resembles the 10M ECC83s.
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Postby ichabod » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:35 am

Getting a perspective on the different tonalities of these tubes need a good ear. I congratulate you for making such a distinction for those wondering out there what tube in the driver stage might compliment their gear. Improve on it perhaps shifting the tones from lush to something lusciously lush yet tight and extended. I find the teles in my vintage stuff to sound better edging the mullards in clarity and extension. Well, the Germans like marches and love to listen to their music in a clear tone. German grammaphone recordings seem to indicate that quite well. I also have some transcripts of German musicians doing their bid and the sound seems in that order as well. Clear as a bell, and the teles are what they are.

Of course these combinations add fun and luster to the whole gamut of recordings, and it's up to the listener to deduce which seems to cut well into the music. Which holds a truer tone vis-a-vis the recordings on a given amp trained to a specific speaker with a definitive sonic character. Still synergy is what matters. And I'm happy that tubes can afford us such variety.
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Postby Noel » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:30 am

jadis wrote:Hi Noel,

No, I would say that the Tele 803, and for that matter, the 80 series, belong to another
level than the standard ECC83s. They were manufactured at a certain quality standard, for
lesser noise, and longer life, and the German military would even commission Telefunken
to mark milspec tubes with the Falcon logo. They would not go into such trouble if they
would be similar with the ordinary ECC83 tubes.

I have moved from the Tele83s to the Mullard 83s and now to the Mullard CV492s. I
did not try any 4004s so far but my friends who did found the ordinary ECC83s of Mullard
to sound more lush in the mid than the 4004. I tried a 4003 and found it really to be even
more dry than a Tele82 in my line stage. If you are looking for very lush sound, the Mullard
ECC83s and the CV492s will be great for that. Or even the 10M ECC83s of Mullard will do the
same job. In Hongkong, the local folks love Mullards more than Teles, based on the shootout
reports they post. And I guess they all look for the lush midrange rather than the more extended character of the Teles, which have a more 'neutral' mid, ie, less lush. And I believe, that the 4004 sounds different from the commercial Mullard tubes, and different also
to the CV492 bec the 492 kind of resembles the 10M ECC83s.


Thanks a bunch.
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Postby cia » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:54 am

Hi Noel,

May I ask what kind of cdp you have since you state you change the tubes?

Carlos
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Postby Noel » Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:07 am

cia wrote:Hi Noel,

May I ask what kind of cdp you have since you state you change the tubes?

Carlos


Hi Carlos. Its norh cd-1, from what i heard its a one-box clone of the Cal Audio Labs Delta transport plus the Alpha II DAC.
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Postby jadis » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:41 pm

ichabod wrote:Getting a perspective on the different tonalities of these tubes need a good ear. I congratulate you for making such a distinction for those wondering out there what tube in the driver stage might compliment their gear. Improve on it perhaps shifting the tones from lush to something lusciously lush yet tight and extended. I find the teles in my vintage stuff to sound better edging the mullards in clarity and extension. Well, the Germans like marches and love to listen to their music in a clear tone. German grammaphone recordings seem to indicate that quite well. I also have some transcripts of German musicians doing their bid and the sound seems in that order as well. Clear as a bell, and the teles are what they are.

Of course these combinations add fun and luster to the whole gamut of recordings, and it's up to the listener to deduce which seems to cut well into the music. Which holds a truer tone vis-a-vis the recordings on a given amp trained to a specific speaker with a definitive sonic character. Still synergy is what matters. And I'm happy that tubes can afford us such variety.



Ichabod,

I agree with you fully on the Tele's penchant for driving the
'march music' to the fullest. It fits this kind of music to the T. Especially
with the 803 variety. Spectacular. So goes even for the Siemen's 50s
CCa, same tonality. As for the Mullards, they do an excellent job
of extracting the emotion out of the singers, and a little rolled off
on the extemes. But the CV492s does get close to extending the
frequencies yet retaining the midrange lushness. I notice that in
most HK tube shootouts, a lot of Mullards always come on top
bec of this lushness. Some people observed that HK people have
small flats and rooms, and small speakers are common, and they love
the way their colonial mentors designed their music, lush full bodied
sound, reminiscent of legendary British products like Quad, Rogers,
and Linn. In the aspect, they term it the 'british' sound.
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Postby jadis » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:08 pm

Image
Image

The Mullard Long Plate ECC82/12AU7 is the latest tube to roll (no
pun intended) into my line stage. This tube affects mostly the CD
input of my line so I expect only the CD section to change, from the
present Tele smooth plate ECC82 that I'm using lately.

I had tried a Mullard CV4003 before, and the sound was less liquid
and drier than the Tele smooth plate. I toy around with the Tele ribbed
and smooth plates, with the smooth plate giving a more 'up front' character while the ribbed, in my system, is more laid back and relaxed.
And now the Long Plate Mullard. I was suprised to find out that tonally
it did not sound too far different from the Telefunken tube. But, it is a lot
lot more lush sounding, especially in male and female voices. Soundstage, bass extension, and highs are pretty much the same for the
two tubes, but definitely, the overall musically caused by this sense of
added lushness makes my CD listening a lot more pleasurable especially
on badly recorded CDs. Despite adding lushness, there is no veiling
effect unlike other brands. Amazingly, it adds on to my musical enjoyment
with little or almost nothing to give up in sonic attributes.
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Postby amandarae » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:52 pm

jadis wrote:Image
Image

The Mullard Long Plate ECC82/12AU7 is the latest tube to roll (no
pun intended) into my line stage. This tube affects mostly the CD
input of my line so I expect only the CD section to change, from the
present Tele smooth plate ECC82 that I'm using lately.

I had tried a Mullard CV4003 before, and the sound was less liquid
and drier than the Tele smooth plate. I toy around with the Tele ribbed
and smooth plates, with the smooth plate giving a more 'up front' character while the ribbed, in my system, is more laid back and relaxed.
And now the Long Plate Mullard. I was suprised to find out that tonally
it did not sound too far different from the Telefunken tube. But, it is a lot
lot more lush sounding, especially in male and female voices. Soundstage, bass extension, and highs are pretty much the same for the
two tubes, but definitely, the overall musically caused by this sense of
added lushness makes my CD listening a lot more pleasurable especially
on badly recorded CDs. Despite adding lushness, there is no veiling
effect unlike other brands. Amazingly, it adds on to my musical enjoyment
with little or almost nothing to give up in sonic attributes.


hey Jadis,

Many (audiophools like us especially in Japan) swear that for ultimate lushness and romanticism especially for SET applications without sacrificing detail and body, the combination of Mullard you mentioned above as a driver/output tube (CDP etc.) or a phase splitter and the RCA 6SN7/VT-231 gray Glass are the champ in this department.

I wish my CDP takes 12AU7 instead!

cheers!
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Postby jadis » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:35 am

Hi Aman,

You mentioned you are now in Japan. How is the tube sourcing there? Easy to find ba?
I heard there are many nice NOS tubes there, I have bought some thru the net from a
Japanese, but medyo mahal sila.
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Postby amandarae » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:00 pm

jadis,


No sir! I am not anywhere close to Japan at all! I came across the info about the tubes I mentioned from DIY forum discussions where in there's a lot of Japanese SET amp builder participating in it.

I been there before, but mainly on business trips during the time where I do not know anything about tubes. Believe it or not, I became a full time audio-fool only three years ago! I been around the block but never had the passion I have as to date.

cheers
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Postby jadis » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:18 pm

Ah, ok, Aman. Thnx
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Postby jadis » Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:05 am

Mullard ECC82/12AU7 Long Plate SQUARE GETTER

Image

Image

Image

Image

Got this rare 50s 17mm Square Getter 12Au7 and was able to directly compare it to the 17mm O double support getter on my JPL line stage.
Not suprisingly, they share the same sonic signature, but what I noticed is that the square getter version is a tad more body and has better definition in the bass, and more robust in presentation of bass drums and even plucking of the double bass. And I would even say that the square getter version is even sweeter, lusher and more romantic than the double support version. Now I should start hunting for the the 6DJ8s and 12AX7 versions.....and one last observation, I observed that most square getter tubes have only half of the silver mica present on top of the tube. This has made many tube watchers think that the life of such tube has been greatly dimisnished by usage but such is not the case. Such was really the intended design, as in the case of 45 degree tilted getters wherein the silver mica is also sloped in a 45 degree fashion.
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Postby audiophyte » Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:04 am

Just saw a pair of 12au7 Matsus-hita with the same silver mica sloped in a 45-degree ... made me also wonder then if it is still strong .... this post confirmed that it was designed that way.... though i failed to listen to it.

my favorite tubes are the Sylvania 6189W paired with Telefunken 12ax7 smooth plate and GE 6bq5 oval grey plates.
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Postby jadis » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:20 pm

yes. there are also 45 degree sloped getter tubes and the mica is also sloped in a 45 degree manner.
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Postby Audioboy » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:15 am

jadis wrote:yes. there are also 45 degree sloped getter tubes and the mica is also sloped in a 45 degree manner.


my matsushita 12au7 tubes have 45 degree sloped getter and mica. however, instead of square getter, they have the usual round getter.
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Postby conspicuous » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:38 am

jadis,

i was wondering if your mullard long plate ecc82s are the same as those being sold at tubedepot?:

http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-12au7-mullard.html

they look almost the same as in your photo except that the tubedepot version only says ecc82 on it. thanks!
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