Question for Mr. Jadis

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Postby jadis » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:32 pm

qguy wrote:Jadis,

in your opinion, what is the most important component in the system ?
Loudspeaker, Amp or Source


You just struck the nail on the head....The best question for an
audio buff---WHERE to spend most on your system, or where to put
your attention in system matching. This is also the most controversial
question for an audiophile. Many will have diff views and debates, and
in the end, it is about subjectivity. I would first venture to say that
ALL components are important. That is the reason why we are in
high end, bec ALL component change matters. Each change
exhibits small to dramatic improvements. Really, if there is a
ranking of importance, the margin will be so small, really small.

Imo, I would put the loudspeaker first. I have talked to a lot
of audiophiles and even audio designers, and they agree. One
designer went on to say that the difference between any two
loudspeakers in the market is very very huge. So most important
of all, an audiophile MUST determine what kind of loudspeaker is
best suited for his musical TASTE. Rock music lovers simply cannot
live with a Quad ESL electrostatic. One bang and they will die. Neither
can they live with a Rogers LS3/5a. They need something big, and
efficient, and in auditioning, they will know what kind of speakers
are suited for their music. This said, the next thing to do is to find
an amp that will MATCH the speakers. The criterion here would be
finding out if the speakers are efficient or not, then matching it
with amps that will satisfy this parameter. For example, the Apogee
Ribbons mostly will only be driven properly to satisfying levels with
high powered solid state amps, most notably Krells; and I saw in many
hi end shows these two being used together, bec the Apogee tend to
go down to 2 or 1 ohm load, creating a heavy demand for the amp.
So if you will mate them with, say, a Quicksilver 60 watter, or a
Marantz 20 watter, then I believe this marriage will not last a day.

It almost appears that mating the speakers and amps is one
thing. They should share the level of importance. After that, I would
put the pre-amp next. To me, I feel it gives the 'flavor' to the speaker-amp marriage. I feel my JPL line stage is the 'heart' of my system.
Each time I change a different tube brand, the flavor of the sound
changes from lush to neutral, and vice versa. Very easy to detect the
difference in nuances. Such a flexible pre-amp is a plus in one's system,
where one can decide the 'tone' of the sound through tube matching
to the system. It is almost like having an 'equalizer' in the sound chain.
An honest equalizer to tune down harshness or to increase transparency.

It may be unthinkable to put the source component to the last
place, and I really would not want to see it that way or to put it that
way but since we are addressing an objective question, we have to.
That is not to say the source is the least important of all. We know
the saying garbage in garbage out. The source can be placed even
at the top of the importance pile. But for me, if we place the best
source component and run it thru a mismatched amp-speaker combo, we
will get nowhere. Spend 1.5m of the latest ML DAC-Transport combo,
and run them thru a bad combo wherein the speakers will not be
driven to reasonably loud levels, and we will not be happy. I think
my point is, once we solve the amp-speaker mystery, it is easier
to find a decent sounding source, which is a plenty. Whether you are
a rock or classical, or jazz or vocal lover, the source will not give you
trouble, in terms of choosing any brand or even the mode of the source( CD or turntable). But, if you are a rock fan, certainly you will have
trouble if you unknowingly bring home a Quad ESL electrostat instead
of say a Dynaudio or B&W speakers. This is where things get wrong.
And for the rock music lover, even if he buys a B&W speaker but
matches it with like a 20watt amp, he again, will be in trouble. Either
the amp will bomb out, or the tweeters will burn. This a common
story that audio technicians always love to tell.
Last edited by jadis on Sun Aug 01, 2004 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby RU9 » Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:15 pm

jadis wrote: So most important
of all, an audiophile MUST determine what kind of loudspeaker is
best suited for his musical TASTE. Rock music loves simple cannot
live with a Quad ESL electrostatic. One bang and they will die. Neither
can they live with a Rogers LS3/5a. They need something big, and
efficient, and in auditioning, they will know what kind of speakers
are suited for their music.


Sir,

What speakers do you recommend for rock (budget to hi-end)?

Thank you.

louie
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Postby jadis » Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:25 pm

RU9,

hmmm...I have good experience with the high end B&W lines, like the old
802 series3, 801 series3. I can't think of others now, but will post when I think of
some.
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Postby dinolara » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:05 pm

Mr. Jadis,

I like your answer to qguy very much. There are other small details like interconnect, speaker cable, power cords, acoustic treatment, tube rolling, racks, etc. When do they come in when tuning your system to your taste?
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Postby jadis » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:59 pm

dinolara wrote:Mr. Jadis,

I like your answer to qguy very much. There are other small details like interconnect, speaker cable, power cords, acoustic treatment, tube rolling, racks, etc. When do they come in when tuning your system to your taste?


thnx...the tweaks come in after the hardwares are mated well. you must at least like the sound of the mated hardware. it is like the interior
design of your house. you gotta have a 'sound' shell first, then the fine
pieces go in....the fun begins with the tweaking materials, they are
cheap, and gives value for money improvements. i love them. experimentation is required though...
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Postby bridgebolt » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:04 am

dr. janis, and other tube lover,

tanong lang po.... ano po ba da best tube amp? kt88. 300b. el34 and etc. help me decide para pag nag setup ako ng bago...

salamat po... nakasingit din
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Postby hein » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:45 am

Dear Mr. Jadis,

There is this girl I like in the office, but she doesn't know I'm alive. What should I do to get her attention?

Mr. Lonesome
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Postby rs241 » Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:33 am

hein wrote:Dear Mr. Jadis,

There is this girl I like in the office, but she doesn't know I'm alive. What should I do to get her attention?

Mr. Lonesome


:lol: :lol: :lol: Hahahaaaaaaa :lol: :lol: :lol: Lang 'ya! Is this one those questions intended to test and entrap again?


Hein, if you're really serious...don't really know what to say except good luck! and all the best to you!
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Postby jadis » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:02 am

bridgebolt wrote:dr. janis, and other tube lover,

tanong lang po.... ano po ba da best tube amp? kt88. 300b. el34 and etc. help me decide para pag nag setup ako ng bago...

salamat po... nakasingit din


I hope by dr. janis, you are refering to me. :)

Anyway, I think you have to tell me what type of music you
listen to. That is usually the first question you ask yourself before
you buy an amp. Push-pull type amps using KT88, 6550s, EL34s and
the like usually have more power, around 100 watts up. Once you
go to the SET amps using 300B, 211, 845, etc., these amps are usually
'low' in power rating, about 25 watts down, there may be a few that
are higher, but most are low.

Generally, the sound of the KT88s, as opposed to the 6550s, is
smoother, more refined, and more laid back. Dick Olsher of Stereophile
once called the 6550s as 'non-audio' tubes and has high marks for the
KT88s. As for the EL34s, I have limited experience with them, but
from what I have heard, they are very sweet in the midband, may
have some roll offs in the highs, and has a bit of a flabby, or loose, bass.
Once you talk about single ended amps using 300B and the like, you
are in a different realm, I feel. The mid is just so body-ful, (mataba, or
makapal ), highs are the same too as the mids, and I guess the people
who own SETs normally would not care too much about the lows--that
is just an observation, I may be wrong here. If I owned a SET amp,
I wouldn't care about the lows and the dynamic slams either; putting in
oldies would be as fantastic as I've ever heard people singing. Simpy
enjoyable and you are immersed in the music. And for some reasons,
listening to oldies through SETs somehow makes me visualize the old
type of microphone they use in those times, the singing is so 'live' I
feel the time era even. A good change from the push-pull kind of sound.
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Postby ihatejazz » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:19 am

Dear Dr. Jadis,

I am writing to help my good friend find a comfortable home for his beloved VPI TNT 5. He wants to make sure it will be well loved. By the way, he is very choosy. He wants it be housed somewhere in the Damar Subd area.

Many thanks for your time and I await your reply for teh best advise.
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Postby jadis » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:23 am

hein wrote:Dear Mr. Jadis,

There is this girl I like in the office, but she doesn't know I'm alive. What should I do to get her attention?

Mr. Lonesome


Mr hein,

Since you wrote this at almost 3:00am, I figured either you might
be tuned to the wrong channel or you might just want me to start a new
column like 'Dear Abby', Maaalala Mo Kaya, or Mga Kwento ng Buhay. :lol:

At any rate, I have always tried not to disappoint you since you
seem to ba an ardent audiophile. But I have to warn you, that assuming
I lead you to some sort of success in getting this girl's nod, you begin
to trek to a perilous life wherein from thereon you need to report each
and every audio gear that you purchase. And worse, you WILL be
prevented from even making a purchase. Do you REALLY want that????
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Postby jadis » Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:30 am

ihatejazz wrote:Dear Dr. Jadis,

I am writing to help my good friend find a comfortable home for his beloved VPI TNT 5. He wants to make sure it will be well loved. By the way, he is very choosy. He wants it be housed somewhere in the Damar Subd area.

Many thanks for your time and I await your reply for teh best advise.


Dear Dr. I-really-love-jazz,

We shall see what we shall see.....As I said, a thousand
mile journey begins with the first step....eh, I still NEED to shoot pics
of his FANTABULOUS SYSTEM that will make all those 5 Part mini-series
that I've done like a JOKE! As Belafonte said, 'don't turn your back
on the masses, mon!" I am part of that 'masses', Mr Stradivarius, so,
have a heart, PLEASE let me first shoot those beautiful veneer wood of a speaker you possess. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby bridgebolt » Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:16 pm

thanks dr jadis... your a really big help to the community....

cheers in tagalog tama tayo..heheh
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Postby jadis » Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:00 pm

marty_e wrote:

Between July 1 and August 5 Mr Jadis as accumulated 299 posts that, IMO, translates to 2,999 when taking into account the value and insight the posts contain. I have followed with keen interest the contributions of Mr Jadis in this forum and the wisdom imparted thus far have been invaluable to me. I guess this is just my way of saying thanks Mr Jadis for the patience he exhibits in answering queries, banal or otherwise, and the care he puts into his posts to assure clarity and ease of understanding to the reader.

Others in this site such as VD, Arnold, Mickey, the Prof formerly known as JM (now M.I.A.), Rtsy, Shoe_maker, Rene, OFogey, Joe3RP, Ihatejazz, Mr Bomalabs and many others have likewise pitched in by way of sharing their gear and homes, food, wisdom products and stories as well. Detubo's done us a great service by chairing an event that was unprecedented in local audio history.

When i started this hobby, I was never part of an audio community. My mentors were magazines, salesmen and mang Dima. Try learning golf without a pro. I guarantee you that you will double your effort to only achieve half your potential. What started out as showing gratitude MR Jadis now extends to everyone else here for their contributions to a budding hobbyist as myself.

To Mr Jadis and the rest, maraming salamat po!
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*** Thanks too for the kind words, marty_e. What started out
as a plain visit to WS to post a set of TAS and Stereophile magazines which I was selling has turned out to be something I never imagined.
That is the beauty of cyberspace, we can do things in our free time even
hour by hour without interrupting out daily routine. And I am grateful to
Hyperion for introducing me to this forum and MOST of all, I have to
thank the SOURCE of that, Mr ihatejazz for inviting me and Hyperion
to meet with Jim White of Aesthetix. It was that night that Hyperion
mentioned WS to me. And it goes without saying that I wouldn't be here
long if I were not enjoying things here. The thing that unites us here is
love of music, and it is very nice to see a thousand plus people who love
to talk about the hobby from time to time.


And sorry to have forgotten to mention the guy who started it all with the topic, 'Question
for Mr. Jadis' - Mr shoe maker, or shumacher pala ang pronounciation nun. I am truly
amazed at the evolution of this thread from one simple question. Before that question, I was
just posting some things that I want to dispose of. Thanks, shoe.
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Postby sandawa » Tue Sep 07, 2004 9:46 am

yeah, i remember the audio-shop rumors about these groups when i was based in QC, and what i heard was that these were exclusive and only for big-buck system owners. mr. jadis's story now makes all these things clear to me. i remember someone asked me the estimated worth of my audio system back then and i replied "mura lang," which was true. i was never approached again and never got invited in a meeting. i still think though that a Manila-based audio club is a good idea, and the failures of the first groups should provide the lessons to learn from. if others could do it, why can't we? it's just my opinion.
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Postby jadis » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:49 pm

sandawa wrote:yeah, i remember the audio-shop rumors about these groups when i was based in QC, and what i heard was that these were exclusive and only for big-buck system owners. mr. jadis's story now makes all these things clear to me. i remember someone asked me the estimated worth of my audio system back then and i replied "mura lang," which was true. i was never approached again and never got invited in a meeting. i still think though that a Manila-based audio club is a good idea, and the failures of the first groups should provide the lessons to learn from. if others could do it, why can't we? it's just my opinion.


your story is quite unfortunate..but i believe i have never
joined a group wherein its recruitment principles was based on cost of
equipments. i believe there may be isolated and personal comments
of that nature but as a whole i have not really heard that.
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