Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono and Line Preamps

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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby Superman » Thu May 23, 2013 8:47 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:baguhin ko nga un statement ko....un hindi pang politiko hehe....

the ear will bloom in an all tube system....thus dami sasabi mabagal ang ear....but it's like taking the wrong fix for the wrongly diagnosed sickness.


AYOS! :D

Any unit available for audition?? :devil:
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Thu May 23, 2013 8:49 am

Superman wrote:Any unit available for audition?? :devil:


dka nakikinig sups ah....sabi ko minimax will work well in all kinds of system.....dna kelangan audi-audition pa hehehe
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby Superman » Thu May 23, 2013 9:48 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:
Superman wrote:Any unit available for audition?? :devil:


dka nakikinig sups ah....sabi ko minimax will work well in all kinds of system.....dna kelangan audi-audition pa hehehe

Bwahaha! Sorry po Idol :angel:
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Thu May 23, 2013 9:51 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:
Superman wrote:Any unit available for audition?? :devil:


dka nakikinig sups ah....sabi ko minimax will work well in all kinds of system.....dna kelangan audi-audition pa hehehe


As I have only heard it in my own system, I am not ready to pronounce the Minimax, to work well in all systems. Which is why I said there it is synergistic with my system as I found out that my new ARC 115 had pulled out some 'magic' though added some other good stuffs in some other areas. To me, how it 'works well' depends on WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR in your system. I am still finding out new things in each familiar recording as the days go on. And still I have not reached even the 100 hours break in period.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Thu May 23, 2013 12:06 pm

well, ive tried it on a few different system thus my conviction.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Thu May 23, 2013 2:11 pm

One more thing about my belief in synergy. A good friend pm'ed me if the designer of the 'Max can do a higher gain model, something in the 70db + level. His speakers are hard to drive and line stage's gain is not high, hence, even with a present 71db phono preamp, the line volume has to be cranked way up till it reaches a satisfactory loudness. So, with even a decent 57db gain from the Max, the loudness level will not be enough. In my case, I knew I was adding a couple of db's, hence I knew my gain will definitely be enough for my system. Matching still matters.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Thu May 23, 2013 2:20 pm

the Max mc section has 2 gain option...my 0.25 mv cartridge is just attached to the low gain...considering i listen louder than usual....the hi gain adds another 6 db i think
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Thu May 23, 2013 2:29 pm

TheAnalogSource wrote:the Max mc section has 2 gain option...my 0.25 mv cartridge is just attached to the low gain...considering i listen louder than usual....the hi gain adds another 6 db i think


nols, actually the mc high and the mc low jacks are not really about gain. it's about loading. acc to the manual, high loads down to 100ohms (exactly for my koetsu) and the low loads it down to 47ohms. it's input resistance, not gain. when morita was here, we tried to 2 modes, the mc high had a better sound quality, not necessarily louder.
the arc provides many resistors for exact value loading for different cartridges.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Thu May 23, 2013 2:34 pm

oo nga pala...my bad haha

ang defense ko na lang same as pat would say.....eh to start with pangit na ng system haha
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Fri May 24, 2013 6:59 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:oo nga pala...my bad haha

ang defense ko na lang same as pat would say.....eh to start with pangit na ng system haha


sorry i have to take this back....i got confuse with the bunch of phonos i was listening together with the minimax.

...but the 2 mc input infact is a hi/low gain selection to accomodate different mc cartridge output levels not an impedance matching although it is an added plus being inherent to the design. The minimax mc section is a step up transformer thus is a voltage transformer to increase output voltage from the very small voltage generated by the cartridges thus the increase in volume. The difference in impedance is actual a side product if you apply the law of power conservation or something like that. the minimax most likely has a 2-tap sut judging by the look with only 1 transformer on each side thus enable us to have the two gain/impedance option.

....actually you can say the other way that the designer use the sut as an impedance matcher....although concequently there will be a percieved gain in output volume though.

this is just me but i think the gain controls on most phono preamps are meant to match the different output (from say lowest around 0.2mv) of various cartridge to the input level of the main preamp sensitivity which is line level. once line level is achieved more or less, i believe the adjust for volume should be in the main preamp and not in the phono section. As per experience, you get different flavors if you tinker with the phono gain (a more prominent midband in general as you go up) than just simple increase in volume (which you get from increasing the gain control of the preamp).

thus if the system after the phono cannot open up there must be wrong in the system somehow. and no problem cranking up the volume...that is what it is for...although of course you might pushing equipment capacity beyond optimal condition when done all the way (not sure though).


on last note, the minimax is not the last phono there is. you can get a more specialize phono to fulfill your system specific requirement. However my initial post just tells my experience that with any system, at the very least the ones i've listened it with, it matches well not only that it let you hear something new and different but actually synergize well with them and did not compromise anything positive you used to have.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Fri May 24, 2013 8:10 am

"Synergy is about ying and yang...balancing....adding a neutral component in a bloomy system or adding lushy component in a neutral one. the minimax doesnt lean to either side.

The minimax is sort of a buffer....adds the lushness to an otherwise sterile system....while bring out bass and high extensions and details to an otherwise dull one."


Nols, just wanted to clarify some things. Quoting you from your initial post here in this thread, I got the impression that you meant that the Minimax does not need system synergy and that it works in all or any given system of anybody. You mentioned that the Minimax does not lean to either side of a bloomy nor neutral system, but later you you added that being a 'buffer', it adds lushness to an otherwise sterile system. I do not seem to get the meaning here. What if a system is already too lush for a listener? What will the Minimax do to it?
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Fri May 24, 2013 8:14 am

actually i have test it on a system like that...it brought out the detail....didnt take out the lushness though as compare to say adding an all-ss phono
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Fri May 24, 2013 8:47 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:actually i have test it on a system like that...it brought out the detail....didnt take out the lushness though as compare to say adding an all-ss phono


"adds the lushness to an otherwise sterile system" to me isn't the same as taking out lushness. by adding lushness, it connotes already a certain coloration which in turns connote a need for a system synergy or matching. that is the point i was making when i mentioned 'synergy' in my reply to dimfer's post. to imagine an audio gear that does not NEED system synergy to me would imply that that gear is near perfect or even perfect but we know that there is no perfect gear. and even the its own manual, the mimimax designer 'encourages' the users to try tube rolling as there is an entire section on this topic. that again, would imply that the user may not necessarily like the 'flavor' of the factory supplied tubes. and this to me, connotes another way of 'synergizing' it with the rest of the system.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Fri May 24, 2013 9:40 am

it did add lushness..its a tube phono anyhow which is an inherent property. as compare to it brought out detail....as it was already there in the lp extracted by the cartridge in the first place...but the lushness was not there previously and was only introduced by the preamp.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Fri May 24, 2013 9:55 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:it did add lushness..its a tube phono anyhow which is an inherent property. as compare to it brought out detail....as it was already there in the lp extracted by the cartridge in the first place...but the lushness was not there previously and was only introduced by the preamp.


so when the minimax added lushness to the system, it isn't a 'neutral' gear anymore, is it? and if it added lushness, then there is a need to 'balance' it to the rest of the system, which will be good if the system as you mentioned is 'sterile'. and if there is a need to balance something to some other things, that is my understanding of synergy. hence, i mentioned the need for synergy although you said that the minimax does not need synergy, as i understood it from your first post here - "Synergy is what this phono does not need..."
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby TheAnalogSource » Fri May 24, 2013 11:09 am

yes...at least to my idea of what a neutral system is.

let me explain by showing a few example of what i hear

system sterile.....add minimax....the details were not missed or rounded.....but you hear added lushness.

system bloomy....add minimax....the lushness still there.....but you hear uncovered details never came out before.

system balance....add minimax....plus or minus on either detail and/or lushness...but generally still balance.

of course, above example is to a certain degree which for me is above average. as compare to bulk of phonos i've listened to they are tipped to either end.

so from my point of view...the minimax is very safe to recommend as it always add positive value to a system. ive been saying that its not the end of phonos....such that example if for example a sterile system.... a more lush preamp will beat the minimax....but then again....adding the minimax will give you what you want to a certain acceptable degree.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Fri May 24, 2013 11:30 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:yes...at least to my idea of what a neutral system is.

let me explain by showing a few example of what i hear

system sterile.....add minimax....the details were not missed or rounded.....but you hear added lushness.

system bloomy....add minimax....the lushness still there.....but you hear uncovered details never came out before.

system balance....add minimax....plus or minus on either detail and/or lushness...but generally still balance.

of course, above example is to a certain degree which for me is above average. as compare to bulk of phonos i've listened to they are tipped to either end.

so from my point of view...the minimax is very safe to recommend as it always add positive value to a system. ive been saying that its not the end of phonos....such that example if for example a sterile system.... a more lush preamp will beat the minimax....but then again....adding the minimax will give you what you want to a certain acceptable degree.


nols, i understand what you are mean by what happens after adding the minimax. you yourself mentioned THREE forms of systems with THREE different 'balances'. and by adding the mimimax something else happens, either by addition, subtraction, or no change to WHATEVER areas of an audio field that is describable. in my own understanding then, adding the minimax, even when it uncovers details that were not there before, already is a function of system synergy. a detail deficient system is NOW balanced (to use your own word) by the mimimax which now added detail. if that is still not a synergy description, i do not know what is. and even more confusing to me is when you say the mimimax will match 'ANY SYSTEM, at least the systems that you have heard'. mind you, ANY means even the systems that you have NOT heard. and that is quite a confidence level to say that it will do so in that it "matches well not only that it let you hear something new and different but actually synergize well with them and did not compromise anything positive you used to have" to quote you. and now, you have mentioned the word 'synergize' yourself.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby dafos » Fri May 24, 2013 7:00 pm

TheAnalogSource wrote:
TheAnalogSource wrote:oo nga pala...my bad haha

ang defense ko na lang same as pat would say.....eh to start with pangit na ng system haha


sorry i have to take this back....i got confuse with the bunch of phonos i was listening together with the minimax.

...but the 2 mc input infact is a hi/low gain selection to accomodate different mc cartridge output levels not an impedance matching although it is an added plus being inherent to the design. The minimax mc section is a step up transformer thus is a voltage transformer to increase output voltage from the very small voltage generated by the cartridges thus the increase in volume. The difference in impedance is actual a side product if you apply the law of power conservation or something like that. the minimax most likely has a 2-tap sut judging by the look with only 1 transformer on each side thus enable us to have the two gain/impedance option.

....actually you can say the other way that the designer use the sut as an impedance matcher....although concequently there will be a percieved gain in output volume though.

this is just me but i think the gain controls on most phono preamps are meant to match the different output (from say lowest around 0.2mv) of various cartridge to the input level of the main preamp sensitivity which is line level. once line level is achieved more or less, i believe the adjust for volume should be in the main preamp and not in the phono section. As per experience, you get different flavors if you tinker with the phono gain (a more prominent midband in general as you go up) than just simple increase in volume (which you get from increasing the gain control of the preamp).

thus if the system after the phono cannot open up there must be wrong in the system somehow. and no problem cranking up the volume...that is what it is for...although of course you might pushing equipment capacity beyond optimal condition when done all the way (not sure though).


on last note, the minimax is not the last phono there is. you can get a more specialize phono to fulfill your system specific requirement. However my initial post just tells my experience that with any system, at the very least the ones i've listened it with, it matches well not only that it let you hear something new and different but actually synergize well with them and did not compromise anything positive you used to have.


I checked the actual gain spec of this phono stage cuz I'm interested in one and it clearly states that its maximum gain is 57db using the mc input. Thats high enough DEPENDING on your cart's output, overall system gain and speaker sensitivity. In my case, 57 db will only be high enough for MC carts with at least .7mv output which effectively excludes a whole range of great MC cart's out there. That 57 db max gain will not increase regardless of whatever resistance you choose (47k all the way down to 10 ohms) to load one's cart.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby jadis » Fri May 24, 2013 8:00 pm

dafos wrote:
TheAnalogSource wrote:
TheAnalogSource wrote:oo nga pala...my bad haha

ang defense ko na lang same as pat would say.....eh to start with pangit na ng system haha


sorry i have to take this back....i got confuse with the bunch of phonos i was listening together with the minimax.

...but the 2 mc input infact is a hi/low gain selection to accomodate different mc cartridge output levels not an impedance matching although it is an added plus being inherent to the design. The minimax mc section is a step up transformer thus is a voltage transformer to increase output voltage from the very small voltage generated by the cartridges thus the increase in volume. The difference in impedance is actual a side product if you apply the law of power conservation or something like that. the minimax most likely has a 2-tap sut judging by the look with only 1 transformer on each side thus enable us to have the two gain/impedance option.

....actually you can say the other way that the designer use the sut as an impedance matcher....although concequently there will be a percieved gain in output volume though.

this is just me but i think the gain controls on most phono preamps are meant to match the different output (from say lowest around 0.2mv) of various cartridge to the input level of the main preamp sensitivity which is line level. once line level is achieved more or less, i believe the adjust for volume should be in the main preamp and not in the phono section. As per experience, you get different flavors if you tinker with the phono gain (a more prominent midband in general as you go up) than just simple increase in volume (which you get from increasing the gain control of the preamp).

thus if the system after the phono cannot open up there must be wrong in the system somehow. and no problem cranking up the volume...that is what it is for...although of course you might pushing equipment capacity beyond optimal condition when done all the way (not sure though).


on last note, the minimax is not the last phono there is. you can get a more specialize phono to fulfill your system specific requirement. However my initial post just tells my experience that with any system, at the very least the ones i've listened it with, it matches well not only that it let you hear something new and different but actually synergize well with them and did not compromise anything positive you used to have.


I checked the actual gain spec of this phono stage cuz I'm interested in one and it clearly states that its maximum gain is 57db using the mc input. Thats high enough DEPENDING on your cart's output, overall system gain and speaker sensitivity. In my case, 57 db will only be high enough for MC carts with at least .7mv output which effectively excludes a whole range of great MC cart's out there. That 57 db max gain will not increase regardless of whatever resistance you choose (47k all the way down to 10 ohms) to load one's cart.


yes, jers. and i asked morita if they can make a higher gain model and the answer unfortunately was no.
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Re: Eastern Electric MINIMAX Phono Pre-Amplifier

Postby carbondated » Sat May 25, 2013 1:11 am

Have no experience at all with the Minimax phono stage but there is always the option of using a step-up transformer of whatever quality you are willing to spend for, matched to your cartridge and then connected to the MM input, yes?
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