Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby JackD201 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:09 am

Pareng Dante, you got it man! Kuwentohan mo nalang ako, then again Gentlemen never talk so huwag nalang :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Pareng Phil, you are very correct. One of my favorite sayings is "Horses for Courses". This doesn't just apply to individual preferences as is the usual practice, but to objective criteria too :)

In the case of listening room sizes vis-a-vis loudspeaker radiation and lower octave output capability, what you mentioned has great importance. All sound is vibration, Noise and Music are sound. The only difference between noise and music is how we perceive it. It's easy to turn music into noise, it takes an artist to turn noise into music :D

When it comes to bass being audible, the rule of thumb is that the lowest bass you can hear is the frequency whose quarter wavelength is the same as your longest dimension. If you've got a length that is half wave, three quarter wave and full wave the pitch definition goes up as you go longer. This may seem like a lot but the quarter wave length of 20Hz is just 14ft or so. My room is greater than three quarter and Emperors is greater than full wave. When one is at or below half wave, bass trapping or DRC is a must to avoid overloading or what acousticians specifically call ringing. What we call Ugong (Bad) as opposed to Gapang (Good). The chalenge is to get the Gapang without any of the Ugong. Now the Ugong comes from two places. It is the sound of flexure resonances on boundary surfaces and typically the loudspeaker cabinets themselves. Teka......

Am I getting nerdy again? Tama na nga muna! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby vintage_dog » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:03 am

JackD201 wrote:Thanks for starting this thread Phil! Thanks to you Mullard, O.D. and Randy for sharing your impressions of both the machines and the men who built 'em. You guys ROCK!

Sorry for my not replying right away or for this being a short one. Jim, Keith and I pretty much put the day jobs on the back burner for the duration of Albert's and Damon's stay. Backlog has got us pretty tightly wound now. No listening tonight, that bad :D :D :D

The 9 Mk2 and 11Mk2 upgrades project is the result of various things learned in the last 4 years. The Triple layer technique from the Unifields, the passive servo-crossovers from the SRs and 5 Anniversaries, damping and propogation techniques from the VR-33/35 projects and three more I am not at liberty to divulge. In short these are improvements present in the current line that the 5 year old 9s (launched in 2006) and 7 year old 11s (launched in 2004) needed to catch up with their own siblings.

It was great to see you guys again. It's ben too long! I missed fellow Bozanians Dante and VD but duty called. Especially for Dante. :x :x :x :D :D :D

To O.D and Randy, the 35 and "Ehem" may not be able to do what Kuya Nines and Papa Elevens can do SPL wise but you will be surprised just how much of that experience you'll be able to get at a fraction of their prices. :inlove: :inlove: :inlove: I was at a meeting with my Big Boss (Dad not wife, here title is Supreme Commander :P ) and he had his 5 Anniversaries playing. When he noticed I was distracted he scolded me, stood up and turned off his amp. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I packed the guy in the barrel in the crate of tools and testing equipment to be sent back to California today. I can't wait to hear about the reaction of the VSA employee who unpacks that crate!!!!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This November, Keith and I will be going SMALL. Yup, REALLY SMALL. We're bringing the Unifield 1s this year, the tiniest VSA speaker in the line. Small in size but like their brothers, they have that natural tonality, precise imaging and large soundstage, the transparency that is the result of almost immeasurably low levels of distortion, and that chameleon like ability to be both lightning fast and smooth and harmonically rich depending on the recording.

Keith will be posting his pics soon enough I guess, when he catches up on his own back logs.

Albert and Damon said that they definitely will be back because they said the Philippines and Filipinos are THE BOMB. Thank you all for contributing to their wonderful experience on our shores. Albert likes the Philippines so much he said he wants to retire here. Mukhang Tagaytay ang tinatarget :) :) :) Looks liek we'll be seeing a lot more of Da Man!


Now I miss home.... sayang missed meeting Mr. VSA himself...enjoyed reading the thread... cheers!
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby keith » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:50 pm

Thanks for posting Phil! Am trying to catch up with so much work, I haven't been able to log in much. ;(
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby jadis » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:42 pm

keith wrote:Thanks for posting Phil! Am trying to catch up with so much work, I haven't been able to log in much. ;(


My pleasure, Keith. And my little way of sharing the awesome experience of this 'meet and greet and eat' affair :lol: with a world renowned loudspeaker designer like Albert Von Schweikert. Looking forward to your pictures too.
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby randybarba » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:58 pm

JackD201 wrote:Pareng Dante, you got it man! Kuwentohan mo nalang ako, then again Gentlemen never talk so huwag nalang :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Pareng Phil, you are very correct. One of my favorite sayings is "Horses for Courses". This doesn't just apply to individual preferences as is the usual practice, but to objective criteria too :)

In the case of listening room sizes vis-a-vis loudspeaker radiation and lower octave output capability, what you mentioned has great importance. All sound is vibration, Noise and Music are sound. The only difference between noise and music is how we perceive it. It's easy to turn music into noise, it takes an artist to turn noise into music :D

When it comes to bass being audible, the rule of thumb is that the lowest bass you can hear is the frequency whose quarter wavelength is the same as your longest dimension. If you've got a length that is half wave, three quarter wave and full wave the pitch definition goes up as you go longer. This may seem like a lot but the quarter wave length of 20Hz is just 14ft or so. My room is greater than three quarter and Emperors is greater than full wave. When one is at or below half wave, bass trapping or DRC is a must to avoid overloading or what acousticians specifically call ringing. What we call Ugong (Bad) as opposed to Gapang (Good). The chalenge is to get the Gapang without any of the Ugong. Now the Ugong comes from two places. It is the sound of flexure resonances on boundary surfaces and typically the loudspeaker cabinets themselves. Teka......

Am I getting nerdy again? Tama na nga muna! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



Bitin!!! :lol: I love reading acoustic tech stuff especially since my initial room problem concerned ugong which I solved by pressure traps coupled with speaker placement. These new bits of information I shall commit to memory for future applications. :)
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby JoeyGS » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:10 pm

Oo nga bitin!!!!

You know how we love to hear from an expert like yourself, Jack. Your expertise and experience is priceless for us newbies. I read between the lines whenever you give your speech and I learn a lot from that.

So pleeeeeeeease .... it's ok to do nerd talk ..... keep 'em coming especially that you now have a reference setup that you are happy with.

Sana maimbita ang mga Laguna boys din ........ Congratulations.

BTW, I see that you have a digital source amongst your gears (correct me if I am wrong) ...... time to share your experience with digital source ;) ;) ;)
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby ttommy » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:51 pm

Thanks for documenting this Philip! I'm reminded of that movie Analyze This -- Robert de Niro and Billy Crystal going -- "you..." no "you..." oh but "you..."

Image

Congratulations on such a special event!
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby JackD201 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:52 pm

I promise to write a "Horses for Courses" series in the General Audio section guys! For now, gimmick muna. :D :D :D
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby jadis » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:08 pm

For those who clamor for a 'nerd talk' on room acoustics, may I suggest a title for the topic - "Revenge of the Nerds", I'm sure more people would chime in. :D :D
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby jadis » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:09 pm

ttommy wrote:Thanks for documenting this Philip! I'm reminded of that movie Analyze This -- Robert de Niro and Billy Crystal going -- "you..." no "you..." oh but "you..."

Image

Congratulations on such a special event!


You're welcome, Tito, it's always a pleasure to do my share of audio photo-journalism - an amateur one nga lang. :lol:
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby jadis » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:54 pm

Going back to room size vis-a-vis speaker size, I had a chance to pose Albert VS a question that other people have been asking (not me, btw) "Why hasn't Jonathan Valin (the de facto chief reviewer of TAS) reviewed a VR 9?" Damon overheard me as he was just opposite me in the dinner table and immediately replied: "Have you seen his room? His room is too small for the 9s." So that said, I'm sure what he implied was that there is no way the speakers are going to sound good in the room, and hence, a bad review is not that all surprising or may even be expected. I'm not good at measurements or formulas but Jack had mentioned the proportions and I certainly agree that it is a starting point in building a listening room in the future. My 'tancha tancha' style only gives me rough ideas of room size in square meters vis-a-vis the size of a speaker system. My 40 sq. m. room, imo, was kinda small of the 800s then. Maybe 2 meters wider and 3 meters longer would have been more suitable for it. There are certain albums which will exacerbate the 'ugong' in my room on the 800s while on the Maggies, that same 'ugong' does not exist, using the same album. The Maggies do not have that much bass volume, and the size of my room was apparently just right for it. In contrast, I have heard huge speakers in 100 sq.m. rooms and they sound just right in the bass area, without bass overhang. Walang 'ugong'. Well, end of the 'layman's talk' and let's go on to the 'Revenge of the Nerds - Room Acoustics Edition' talk. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby jadis » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:06 pm

ttommy wrote:Thanks for documenting this Philip! I'm reminded of that movie Analyze This -- Robert de Niro and Billy Crystal going -- "you..." no "you..." oh but "you..."

Image


Tito, yeah, good de Niro and Crystal impersonation by Albert and Jack but I imagine Albert is saying: "Look guys, Jack is asking me to stay a few more days so he can bring me to this beach called Boracay but I've got more work to do back in the factory." Jack replied: " Look at your watch, Albert, your flight is 10 pm but it's already 9:50 now and I've got an extra room upstairs." :lol: :lol:

Of course Jack was just kidding. :D
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby dimfer » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:08 pm

Albert and Damon said that they definitely will be back because they said the Philippines and Filipinos are THE BOMB. Thank you all for contributing to their wonderful experience on our shores. Albert likes the Philippines so much he said he wants to retire here. Mukhang Tagaytay ang tinatarget


he can relocate his factory to the Phils... and move sooner :rock:
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby kabubi » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:16 pm

dimfer wrote:
Albert and Damon said that they definitely will be back because they said the Philippines and Filipinos are THE BOMB. Thank you all for contributing to their wonderful experience on our shores. Albert likes the Philippines so much he said he wants to retire here. Mukhang Tagaytay ang tinatarget


he can relocate his factory to the Phils... and move sooner :rock:


actually, that is very sound (no pun intended) advice. really.
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby jadis » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:47 pm

dimfer wrote:
Albert and Damon said that they definitely will be back because they said the Philippines and Filipinos are THE BOMB. Thank you all for contributing to their wonderful experience on our shores. Albert likes the Philippines so much he said he wants to retire here. Mukhang Tagaytay ang tinatarget


he can relocate his factory to the Phils... and move sooner :rock:


If he does, I can apply as part time factory worker, I know a little about 'screwing' (drivers into the cabinets). :lol:
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby dafos » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:14 pm

As one of those present at last Tuesday's session, there is little I can add to the glowing descriptions of the vr9's ability to accurately reproduce whatever signal is fed it. There is a serious downside, however, of experiencing this type of musical reproduction. Once you fire up your own stereo system, what just a day ago was fabulous is now mundane. You jack up the volume level in a futile attempt to recreate the boundless dynamic range of the VR system to no avail. But don't think for once that this system is all bark. More than the systems ability to reproduce big symphonic blockbusters cleanly, what struck me was it s way with vocals, my preferred musical genre, which for me rivaled the best single ended, single driver system. I just have to say it but Sonus Faber fans you will not be disappointed! So many out there will say that for the cost of this system it better damned sound good. I have, however, experienced other mega buck systems whose only claim to fame was the ability to play loud and shake the room with subterranean bass, but totally lacking in musicality. I believe that this system is much more than just any piece of gear. Rather, its the synergy of these components, the room and the meticulous set up that allows this system to attain this exalted level of musical reproduction.
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby jadis » Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:45 pm

dafos wrote:As one of those present at last Tuesday's session, there is little I can add to the glowing descriptions of the vr9's ability to accurately reproduce whatever signal is fed it. There is a serious downside, however, of experiencing this type of musical reproduction. Once you fire up your own stereo system, what just a day ago was fabulous is now mundane.


I just completed my 3 day sabbatical from critically listening to my audio system but continued to play digital for burn-in purposes. Today, I played some Command Mottola LPs and my ears are well aligned again to my Maggies. :lol:

what struck me was it s way with vocals, my preferred musical genre, which for me rivaled the best single ended, single driver system. I just have to say it but Sonus Faber fans you will not be disappointed!


I heard this full bodied, rounded and very musical vocal rendition of this new midrange driver upgrade too.
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby JackD201 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:58 pm

Ahhhh. The honeymoon is over and now the work has begun. :)

There are a whole lot of copper foil teflon caps in the new XOs and the "Teflon Roller Coaster" ride has begun. There'll be ups and downs (down today and probably tomorrow as well, highs are a bit icy sounding compared to the up cycle we had at the meet and greet) as from experience these are 40 to 50 hour cycles. Changes between cycles should decrease until things settle down after 300 hours or so.

Still, the system is very listenable and still better in performance over the Mk.1. This is one burn-in I will be enjoying :)
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby quizkidz » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:19 am

Sir jack, newbie po ako. makikita at maririnig po ba namin ang system/set up ninyo sa upcoming November Hi Fi Show?

maraming salamat po,

Bot Quizon(quizkidz)

JackD201 wrote:Ahhhh. The honeymoon is over and now the work has begun. :)

There are a whole lot of copper foil teflon caps in the new XOs and the "Teflon Roller Coaster" ride has begun. There'll be ups and downs (down today and probably tomorrow as well, highs are a bit icy sounding compared to the up cycle we had at the meet and greet) as from experience these are 40 to 50 hour cycles. Changes between cycles should decrease until things settle down after 300 hours or so.

Still, the system is very listenable and still better in performance over the Mk.1. This is one burn-in I will be enjoying :)
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Re: Ich Bin Ein der Freund aus Von Schweikert (VS Manila Visit)

Postby JackD201 » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:06 am

Hi Bot, yung bunso na system ang dadalhin namin. Maliliit kasi ang mga kuwarto. :)
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