The Subterranean Lair (THE DARK KNIGHT RISES)

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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JackD201 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:14 pm

Hi Phil, coming from someone whose room is one of my favorites EVER your complements are very, very much appreciated!

Methinks it is time I updated my System Page here at our home forum :)
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:45 pm

JackD201 wrote:Hi Phil, coming from someone whose room is one of my favorites EVER your complements are very, very much appreciated!

Methinks it is time I updated my System Page here at our home forum :)


Jack, in all honesty, if I built my room circa 2010 and NOT 1991, I would have wanted to build it like the way you did. In those days, there was no lack of room treatment material but rather, a lack of room treatment know-how and how to mate that science with the art of interior decorating. With your own knowledge about room and its acoustical properties, technical figures plus the availability of the services of a professional and certified acoustician like Mike P. to design and implement your room designs, that was the key. I now have been telling my close friends who are planning to build music rooms in the future that I am very much impressed with Mike's work, and that if I ever do a new room once again, I would like him to do it, as he had closed the gap between the artistic nature of a listening room vis-a-vis the sonic attributes of it which erstwhile needed to violate the W.A.F. Treaty. :lol: My architect/interior decorator would have loved the presence of Mike in those days. I had to mildly warn him that my listening room was to be exempted from his artistic inclinations. :D The poor guy. :D Thanks to you too, Jack, for opening my eyes and ears, in these modern times. I have always been a student of 'room acoustics'. :)
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The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:29 pm

2 years without an update in the lair. I must be slacking. :lol:

But can I really spell A-N-A-L-O-G ??? I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. SOON ! ! ! :x :lol:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JackD201 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:22 am

Image

Image

Silence is Golden, but it's also 3 types of aluminum, microprocessor control, an air bearing and vacuum hold down :D :D :D :D
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:26 am

JackD201 wrote:Image

Image

Silence is Golden, but it's also 3 types of aluminum, microprocessor control, an air bearing and vacuum hold down :D :D :D :D


That's more like it, pare. :D

The 'mother of all tables'. 8)
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JoeyGS » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:16 am

Nice table .... microprocessor controlled, air bearing, vacuum ..... what more can you ask!

Congrats, Jack!
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby keith » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:45 pm

I still remember that old joke ... "subterranean, subterranean" :wasntme:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:01 pm

JoeyGS wrote:Nice table .... microprocessor controlled, air bearing, vacuum ..... what more can you ask!

Congrats, Jack!


Auto controls? Remote control or HUMAN REMOTE CONTROL ? (It has existed in the past) :D :D
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JoeyGS » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:09 pm

I know the Air Force One has an auto pilot and auto cruise control :lol: :rofl:

jadis wrote:
JoeyGS wrote:Nice table .... microprocessor controlled, air bearing, vacuum ..... what more can you ask!

Congrats, Jack!


Auto controls? Remote control or HUMAN REMOTE CONTROL ? (It has existed in the past) :D :D
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JackD201 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:28 pm

Closest I've ever heard to the silence of digital with the explosiveness of the best idlers and the speed stability of QL'ed DDs. Not to mention resolution that from my experience is bettered only by Tape. That said there are pleasant distortions that we've come to like and associate with the usual LP playback like groove echo and some familiar resonances from plinths, bearings and for those used to sprung suspensions, suspensions. What MSM like to call the "bouncy, bouncy" sound. There is very little of this here. It seems you get far more of what's in the grooves and only what's in the grooves. The stylus/groove interface is so secure that you can literally tap on the shelf, plinth and even the surface of the LP itself while playing that you will not hear the tapping through the loudspeakers. I have NEVER seen this before EVER. If I could only use one word to describe the sound coming from this table, it wouldn't be detailed, it wouldn't be silent, it wouldn't be dynamic. It would be pure. On large scale symphonic works the effect is simply cinematic. Hmmmm. Kung VR-11s pa kaya? :D

It appears that HP is right in his observations. This table is in a class of it's own. Not saying that it is the best for everybody but to my mind it has created a whole new performance category with its own performance envelope. Gary Koh of Genesis told me that the AF1 has allowed him to discover how much more his Burmesters and G2.2 Jr. loudspeakers were capable of. It has done the same for me and the Quad of Lamms and VR-9 Mk2s.
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JoeyGS » Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Sana mapalinggan man lang yan, masaya na ako ... :geek:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:15 pm

JackD201 wrote:The stylus/groove interface is so secure that you can literally tap on the shelf, plinth and even the surface of the LP itself while playing that you will not hear the tapping through the loudspeakers. I have NEVER seen this before EVER.


I have read about this fantastic feat on the net. I have seen it on a youtube video, and until I actually tap the vinyl while playing with my own finger, I still cannot believe it. :o :o :lol: Parang may glue ba ang karayom sa grooves? WOW!!! This aspect of a TT has been my ultimate test, of knocking on chassis to see if feedback is transferred to the grooves of the record. That is why the decades-old test of knocking on the body of a TT or a dustcover had always been my benchmark test on the quietness of a table. The Air Force 1 is indeed the mother of all tables. And I haven't even heard it yet. :D
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JackD201 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:19 pm

Indeed Phil. Floor and Airborne vibration is the enemy of vinyl playback. This deck has killed it dead. I've gotta give big props to the Phantom's arm tube, viscous pivot and magnetic lateral damping as well. I put on an RR big band LP and I must've hit over 120dB easy. On For Duke, typically only A-Train has "jump out of your seat" moments. Now lots of the other tracks have them too.

For those that don't know it. The Lair's system punches out over a combined 1.5 kilowatts per channel over 94dB efficient loudspeakers, going easily below 20Hz with no suck outs. I don't really know how much lower the system goes because none of my measuring tools go below 20Hz. The sound remained as clear as at 70dB. It's a bit scary. You can go extremely loud without any pain because there's so little distortion. One thing I noticed about the air bearing is that whatever little hum there was in my high gain version of the Lamm LP2 is gone. I can only guess that the hum used to come from the bearing towers of my past tables. With nothing but air and fluid I guess it ceased to be a source of hum. Again more dead silence. If I have one quibble it's that the 1:32 step ups provided by Lamm have not yet fully burned in and I can still hear it. I've been using the Valvet Soulphono more but given the tonearm cable length, I can't access the VSP whose 3 pairs of silver toroids are already burned in. The Atlas' suspension is likewise not fully broken in but it's close. Not worried though, I think the 200hours will go by very quickly!
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:58 pm

Pare, kaya ba ng Air Force 1 i-suck ang 7" 45rpm singles? Yung may adaptor puck pa ang gitna? :)
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JackD201 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:52 pm

Looking at the mechanism, my guess is no Pare. Pang 12" lang. :(
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:02 pm

JackD201 wrote:Looking at the mechanism, my guess is no Pare. Pang 12" lang. :(


ah, i was kinda guessing not nga as the outer lip seems important in the suction process. anyway, may TW ka naman. :)
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby TheAnalogSource » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:26 pm

hi Jack, what cartridge are you using with the AF1?
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JackD201 » Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:12 am

Right now I'm using the Lyra Atlas. When the Graham Elite comes with its two extra wands, I'll have more flexibility with the "balasa". I don't really know yet where the Gold Finger and Proteus will go. It's not so much a turntable issue as it is a gain matching one given my different phono stages.
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The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:36 pm

THE SILENCE OF THE LAMM (Dealer) :lol:

"Closest I've ever heard to the silence of digital with the explosiveness of the best idlers and the speed stability of QL'ed DDs." - JackD201 (aka our local Lamm Dealer) :)

He was of course referring to the TechDas Air Force 1, one of the most impressive turntables I have ever seen, and heard. Silence, and quietness, is the hallmark of this incredibly engineered table. It utilizes 'air' to the hilt, on virtually all important aspects of the mechanism, stopping short of its own air bearing tonearm. But from its performance, perhaps it does not need one.

The TechDas Air Force 1:

Image

Image

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The Lyra Atlas:

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The "View" from the side:

Image

The TW AC3 Table:

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The Koetsu Jade with the Triplanar Tonearm:

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The Valvet Phono Stage:

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"Full Frontal":

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The Light Harmonics da Vinci DAC with Mac Server:

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The VR 9 MKII and The Lamm Hybrid amps:

Image

The Dimsum Table: :lol:

Image

'Silence is Golden', as they say. And this is one very silent system. Noise floor is virtually nil. And you can literally hear the pin drop, and as the case may be, you can hear the advantages of having the needle stick to its grooves. I was able to do the tapping test on the vinyl while the record was playing and there was no feedback coming out of the loudspeakers. I tapped, therefore I BELIEVE!!! :D

Two years of slacking in updating this page. And with this, I proclaim that The Subterranean Lair is officially UPDATED! :D :D (Banging of the gavel...) :lol:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby dimfer » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:04 pm

awesome.. thanks for the update
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