The Subterranean Lair (THE DARK KNIGHT RISES)

super-systems, audio insights...

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Postby randybarba » Tue May 20, 2008 8:47 pm

Mamimili wrote:Hello Jack, a quick question,

Is there a formula for the size and spacing of the wood sound treatment on your side walls?

If not, hey, i have a saw and a drill and i can do that tomorrow :D


I was thinking I could apply this approach to my room. Di pala pwede. And from Jack's description above, its not as simple as it looks. Equalizer na lang :lol: . Kung di lang sana out of reach yung townshend na yun... :lol:
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Postby Mamimili » Tue May 20, 2008 9:15 pm

randybarba wrote:
Mamimili wrote:Hello Jack, a quick question,

Is there a formula for the size and spacing of the wood sound treatment on your side walls?

If not, hey, i have a saw and a drill and i can do that tomorrow :D


I was thinking I could apply this approach to my room. Di pala pwede. And from Jack's description above, its not as simple as it looks. Equalizer na lang :lol: . Kung di lang sana out of reach yung townshend na yun... :lol:


Randy, we could always grab some drywall and give our rooms the same dimensions as The Lair to make life easy :wink:

Jack, thanks for the explanation.
I agree the slats "look pretty", a rather important point.
Slats are easy to work with, i already have the foam and a few sheets of commercial absorber, i guess i can buy or borrow a mirror (no hair so no need for a mirror) and have a go sometime soon :D

Cheers Gents :D
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Re: The Bozanian Principality - "The 9th Heaven"

Postby jadis » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:34 pm

A 'flash' visit to this Bozanian 'principality', where the Crown Prince and his VR-9s resides, made me witness a new level of musicality and dimensionality in the overall sound spectrum of the system. The CP has done something. Something surreptitious, at least in these pages. :D It not only involves the Scotland Yard but the R.A.F. :D :D Well, and he also added another 'secret' cart that was both musical and detailed. That's about all I can say, lest I get picked up by the Gestapo. :D The new Raven turntable is mightily impressive. In built quality it resembles the foundations of a concrete building. Solid base with no resonances. Fantastic engineering, to say the least. And I was told the 9's position were tweaked a bit and now the soundstage is as rock solid as ever. Gone is the little truncation of the stage and gone too is the vagueness of instruments performing in the stage. One can now 'see' a true rectangular sound stage that goes beyond the sides of the speakers, and with holographic layering to boot. Absolutely a joy to listen to. Playing the UK pressing of the Richter Liszt Piano Concerto, the depth is magnificent, and the timber of the piano, though without the US pressing's hammering effects, is very natural and soothing. On Linda Ronstadt's 'For Sentimental Reasons', everything just comes into place, with Linda's voice as lovely as can be and the band just playing along. By that time I forget to think and just simply get engulfed in the music. It's a great experience and it is like the feeling of being in the 9th heaven. :)
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VR4SR MKIII

Postby jadis » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:53 pm

After a long, long time, I was able to visit the VS Lair in WW, thought to be in its final few months before the big move to the North Lair. Comrade JD ushered me into the 'lower chamber' :lol: aka 'the small room' where they have the luxury to baby sit 'giant toys'. :lol: Sitting there were a spanking brand new pair of VR4SR-MKIIIs, in stunning piano gloss black (So new I could not detect dust nor fingerprints. :lol: I heard the M.O. of Soviets agents was to use gloves all the time in field operations. Some of them even give away free gloves to audio dealers here). :D

UP CLOSE:

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Since my phone-cam does not have those fancy wide/zoom lens, I had to split the pic into 2 parts:

THE LEFT:

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And THE RIGHT:

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Though physically identical in body size and driver complements to the previous MKII model, I should say their sound is 'fraternal'. :lol: As in, they don't sound alike. Since Comrade J had made a review of these speakers in their own kingdom, :lol: I shall only put forth a few of my impressions after listening to them albeit in less than optimum gear 'warm-up' state. And of course, I heard the MKIIs with different set of electronics which were of top quality, but nevertheless, one is able to get a sense of their sound qualities. A short instrumental piece and then mostly a CD of The Madrigal Choir proved these speakers are a new breed from their previous siblings, namely the MKIIs. The most striking difference to me is the overall transparency. Without having to listen hard, the immediate notion is - there are no speakers. As Jack put it, it's like listening to planar speakers. I was just about to say that myself. It is now easily on par with the transparency of the Wilson WATT speakers, with its heavy and inert cabinets, at around twice the price too. The soundstage is huge too for its size, with ample 'height' as well. There is sound all around the speakers and the center fill is dead pan focused as well. Each singer is well defined too and tonally, there is a lot of body. All these coming from a pair of Theta transport and DAC combo and LAMM electronics. Pretty impressive. I can only imagine how great they would sound of the main room's analog rig. Maybe next time, when they travel to the North. Thanks, Comrade, for the 'revealing' session. :)
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Re: Metamorphosis

Postby jadis » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:22 pm

METAMORPHOSIS...

My much awaited entry into the deep chamber of music has finally happened. Never before was I so excited to walk down into a specially built bunker that houses incredible things, and I'm NOT talking about going down the Ming Tombs in Beijing. :D

Immediate sightings after going down the steps of the new lair, we find a 'LAO' painting neatly pasted on the front wall. For those like me who are not into art, :lol: it's the white thing in the middle with 3 lines at the bottom. :lol: (Pardon the picture quality from my P&S as I chose to shoot under low light conditions at higher ISO so much grain is present) :$

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With the black amps and the black speakers aka the IX's:

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Right Channel:

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Left Channel:

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The 'front end' and 'middle end':

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Another angle from the right corner pocket: :lol:

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From the eye-point of the VR9 looking at the listening chair area. (There are actually a lot of chairs): :lol:

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Final view from the 'left corner pocket': :lol:

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The descent to the subterranean lair is truly as visually stunning as it is sonically revealing. Where I once subscribed to the theory of 'ugly sights but beautiful sonics' in a listening room, I now completely throw away that thought and reverse myself. :lol: Upon ocular inspection, the buck stopped here. The impact of seeing a listening room cut straight out of the pages on Architectural Digest magazine is awesome indeed. The room treatments are so well incorporated into the interior design of the room that makes me think of the proverbial saying of 'having the cake and eating it too'. It is possible. I have heard our man had the blueprint in his mind long time ago, and with patience and ardent preparation, was able to carve out a room that can be considered a dream room by any audio loving specie.

The work of Mike P. on the room treatment is impressive. I have only seen his works before and heard him talk about room treatment on one occasion and this is the first time for me to hear a professionally designed and calibrated listening room. And I should say it's worth every penny spent. The quietness of the room is a hallmark, and every little thing can be heard. (We were afraid of playing the "Dusk' cut of Amanda McBroom, fearing we might more 17 bells instead of the normal 13). :D The music was very lively, which means there was no over-damping nor over-treatment. The Koetsu Jade, which I erstwhile thought was the least bright of the stone family, surprised me with its clarity, definition and separation of instruments which I did not hear in previous installations. Before I thought it was sounding overly romantic. What a difference a room makes. My favorite LPs were played, and Brothers Four's Beatles Songbook came out with beautiful and well fleshed out and warm vocals while Decca's WB La Fille was stupendous in its soundstage, tight in focus and image localization was pinpoint in the sound field. Instruments easily go beyond the boundaries of the speakers with tremendous dynamics to boot. This time, the music can breathe, in a 70 or so square meter space. The entire system which I heard before at the old lair has now metamorphosized into another animal, and it resembles a cheetah - fast, furious, and sleek, yet full of finesse as it goes full throttle. :)

The digital source is no slouch either. The EERA (how close is that to EERIE?) :D sounded fabulous, almost 'analog-ish' to these ears, and the midband has body, and images has good dimensionality. There is absolutely no fatigue listening to CDs after CDs and like most things French, it is 'lovely'. :lol: Time flew so fast before I knew it, I suddenly remember it's time to get out of the North lair and pick up the wifey and the daughter at nearby Virra Mall lest they shop and eat too much. :D Thanks for the wonderful session, Jack. First impressions makes the most lasting ones to me, and this certainly will rank high above those I have heard in my audio life. I can only imagine the sound will only improve with more burn in time and rugs installed. Looking forward for the next visit, for sure I will bring then my 'O.W.N.' records which I forgot this time. It would be like walking in the 'Nimbus' clouds. Congrats for a super job on the new lair. I know you're happy and I am happy for you that you achieved what you set to achieve. :)

P.S.: I am now filled with anxiety at the thought of a future visit to The Emperor's Palace. I heard mas malaki pa ang kuwarto and even more 'imperial toys'.(Can I count?) :lol: This early, allow to me say 'Hail to the Emperor'. :lol:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby dimfer » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:15 pm

excellent reporting... and congrats to the owner...

we can only dream about owning a room and toys like these :envy:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby qguy » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:33 am

Sounds like Jadis plays 9 ball 8)
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:01 am

dimfer wrote:
we can only dream about owning a room and toys like these :envy:


Lotto time... :)
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:01 am

qguy wrote:Sounds like Jadis plays 9 ball 8)


pa tira tira lang tayo, hehe...
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby ttommy » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:13 pm

Quite stunning. Excellent photography and reporting, Philip. Love how the speaker and amps look like they're in battle formation (although I can't make out the component in the center). The room itself is incredibly well conceptualized and realized. Man, I'd like to have ceiling diffusors like those :envy:

Hope to visit the new lair someday!
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby JackD201 » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:26 pm

I bought a Sous vide Tito, maybe you can teach me some tricks. :devil: Let's chow down baby!

Indiana, as always it was a pleasure having you over. It's great to be able to play LPs again and I think my most recent attack on Scotland Yard's evidence locker proves my renewed enthusiasm!!!!!!!!! Buti na lang sobrang bait ni Epoy. I couldn't have been able to put the AC-3 together on my own without screwing it up :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby O.D. Yeo » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:20 pm

Yes, Virginia, there is a heaven . . . and it's not up there. It's in someone's basement down here!
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby ttommy » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:04 pm

JackD201 wrote:I bought a Sous vide Tito, maybe you can teach me some tricks. :devil: Let's chow down baby!


Since you asked, Jack, click here. :geek:
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:36 pm

Breaking Picture! (as opposed to Breaking News) :D

I was able to make a clandestine shot (with my phone cam) of the 'descent' into the subterranean lair prior to the comrade coming down to meet me as I was a bit early. Something which would make Scotland Yard proud of my investigative sleuthing. :D :D

After the landing pad, a few more steps down, and lo and behold, a solid door the opens into the subterranean chamber of music. My former descent into the Ming Tombs pales in comparison. :D

The Descent:

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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:41 pm

ttommy wrote:Quite stunning. Excellent photography and reporting, Philip. Love how the speaker and amps look like they're in battle formation.


Thanks Tito. Oo nga no, now that you mention it, this...

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...looks like a battle formation - with two Darth Vaders on the flank and a flotilla of black armored tanks in between. Same here, I don't know what the one in the middle is, maybe some mine sweeper or something. :D
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby randybarba » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:09 pm

Thanks for sharing the pictures Phil. Very nice room jack. Are those panels on the front and side walls pressure traps similar to the one in the old lair?
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:35 pm

randybarba wrote:Thanks for sharing the pictures Phil. Very nice room jack. Are those panels on the front and side walls pressure traps similar to the one in the old lair?


My pleasure, Doc Randy. :)
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The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:27 pm

Further Thoughts...

I was trying to think about the sonic signature, or 'house sound' if you will, of the Von Schweikert line (so far I've listened to the 9's, 5SE's, 4SRIIs and IIIs, and the Unifield 3s) after hearing this system in the new lair, and it got me thinking. It now seems to me it has none - in the manner which we would put words like 'romantic', 'sweet', 'bass heavy', 'rolled off highs', etc. in describing a certain gear or compnent) and this has kind of baffled me. Normally I would be able to attach a house sound to, for example, B&W, Sonus, Wilson, Magnepan, Thiel, Vandersteen and others that I have heard before. Some can be on the 'romantic' side, others 'detailed', others have 'bass slam', and very few have none. I have been to the old lair many times and with each change of gear or source, the sonic character changed too. But compared to changing rooms, from the old lair to this magnificently crafted new room, the difference is HUGE, and as I mentioned, it became a different animal. Just when I thought the bass of the analog source was a tad lacking to my taste and wondering if those 15" woofers were turned on or not, when the CD of the Scandinavian vocalists was played, the bass came out strong, weighty and hefty, and immediately I felt the presence of those humongous woofers doing its thing. My conclusion now is that the speakers are faithful to its source and most probably, the flat response of the room treatment has made the room 'disappear' and just leave the matter to the hands of the source components and of course, the software itself.

While I do not like to use the word 'neutral' as that is not exactly the favorite word of our comrade, :lol: I would have to say that these speakers are 'revealing' to the source and even to the ancilliary equipments, including tube change, or cable matching. One thing that made me think more was hearing the Koetsu Jade sounding very different than what it was in the old lair or even in my place when I was testing it. The speakers bring out the 'synergy' or component matching in the system like I've never heard in others previously. Often some speakers' 'signature' mostly imprints its stamp on the sound despite having different sets of electronics or source. This one not only changes from those variables but most strikingly changes as the ROOM size and acoustics were changed, and that was the biggest change. The improvements brought about the better room design and properly calculated acoustic treatment were very much evident here, imo. I can now see what our comrade was so giddy about before when talking about tuning this room to the proper levels that is neither too live nor too dark, where nasty nodes would be eliminated and what results is the natural flow of what is in the audio chain, and the beauty of it is that the speakers were able to produce just that. Also, that it is able to do sonically what it is fed to reproduce, from the fine highs of the ribbon tweeters, to the faithful mids, to the natural bass that is called for by the signal source, namely the recordings itself. The house sound becomes a by-product of the recordings. If the recording has a wide soundstage, it will come out, if it's narrow, it will show, if it's dimensional or flat, it will show up as well. And there is no fatigue. On an Earl Klugh 'Midnight in San Juan' LP, the music just flows out without calling attention to itself, I didn't feel like analyzing because there's nothing to analyze but simply to bask in the sway of Klugh's musical style. That's how 'revealing' the system is now, in the new lair. It's been a long time since I had put on my thinking caps about the audio chain in contrast to the music itself. This time it got me thinking. And now I'm not only anxious about a future visit to the Emperor's palace, I'm now a bit worried as I might NOT be able to remove my thinking caps anymore. :D
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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby jadis » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:14 am

Etong plaka, bagay sa Subterranean Lair: :lol:

RR's "DAFOS"

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Re: The Subterranean Lair

Postby keith » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:29 pm

It just hit me now. Indiana Jones' title is so apt! I just remembered that old joke ...

SUBTERRANEAN! :D
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