REINTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Mang Rod's audio creations...

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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby JackD201 » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:40 pm

At the moment Trodt for all intents and purposes is an artisan studio. Most output is commissioned and thus are unique. Only time and MR will tell if Trodt will scale production. If it happens however I am sure that measurements will be provided for production models for whatever they're worth. I understand why some have asked for measurements. The commonality is that at least two of them reside abroad and that makes actually getting their hands on a Trodt piece remote indeed, pun intended.

What I am more curious about is how the TVC compares with the Trodt Musika active preamplifier. One of you guys wanna give this a shot?
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby asoka » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:07 pm

JackD201 wrote:At the moment Trodt for all intents and purposes is an artisan studio. Most output is commissioned and thus are unique. Only time and MR will tell if Trodt will scale production. If it happens however I am sure that measurements will be provided for production models for whatever they're worth...


This is the sanest and clearest picture of the moment at the moment. Let no one go beyond it lest be misconstrued. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thanks very much, Jack!
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby Quiel » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:12 pm

requests for specs remain unanswered and ensuing discussion at times go ugly.

Maybe what MR is saying is: "take it or leave it, no specs"... that, if indeed is accurate (w/o him sounding necessarily arrogant), is something I can personally take/respect...

Hopefully, this will put requests for specs to rest.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby dieya! » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:43 pm

Greetings Sirs, I feel a bit responsible for this squable and it makes me feel good to see that things are settled. But honestly, I don't know specs and I'm ashamed to ask you guys for some advice because of the highly technical terms you use. My ear is my only friend here, until now. Thank you, and perhaps maybe, I'll be seeking more advice soon. :angel:
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby ESaudio » Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:44 pm

Hi dieya!

Please do not entertain that feeling of guilt nor be ashamed of what you've said that you may somewhow been responsible of this so-called "squabble" of ideas on the "specs". At least, you have made a courageous stand expressing your view about "specs" considering that you just entered your first post at Trodt Audio. In this arena where there is freedom of expression, it is sometimes unavoidable that a head-on collision of differing opinions and totally opposing views will ensue to the point that objectivity has been compromised and deviated. If you will go by the various threads at Trodt Audio and in other threads, there were histories already of conflicting and irreconcilable opinions and that what gives the moderators some headaches. But we were able to move on. It's just a matter of looking for the middle ground for these various philosophies, theories and opinions. And that middle ground is simply respect for one's opinion so that we can continue to interact freely and harmoniously.

On the matter of "specs", Ka Buboy said it all. "Todo Volume Control", as Ding said. The thread on this equipment will also bear my stand.

But for now, the "specs" for this equipment is not available as it has been in the past. And if only to put the issue to rest and if am not mistaken, i have made an outstanding offer along the thread for someone to come forward with that measuring gadget (is it an "oscilloscope"?) and drop by my place so that he can get what he wants since i have most of Mang Rod's creations. But again, a doubting Thomas will always persist in asking as to why all through these years, not one, not one of Mang Rod's audio creations has been measured in terms of the technical specs or audio parameters. Well, i guess that's what most of MR's clients want and they just couldn't care less about specs. Besides, MR's creations is not like an over-the-counter item where you can insist on the specs, or say, the active ingredients of a facial care product. But is MR or are we of Trodt Audio obliged to disclose the "specs" everytime MR will introduce a new creation? Who knows, that day may come when MR's audio creations will roll out from his audio lab and made them available over-the-counter or via special delivery complete with the technical specs. 8)

As regards Tony's pending query between MR's TVC and the Promethius TVC, there may be basic similarity in terms of topology and design between the two, but there really is a big difference. While both are transformer-based volume control, one disctinct dissimilarity between the two is that the Prometheus uses a solid 4N copper wire for its transformer wiring which weigh around 12lbs; while MR's TVC, he used a thin hair-like 38 guage copper wire and weighs very light about 3 to 5lbs . Does that make a difference in terms of its sonic quality? Again, without fear of being branded as bias, i should say that MR's TVC got the edge over Prometheus coz i have heard the two gadgets on one occasion. As Diana Krall's song says: let's "Do It Again".

And going to Sir Jack's curiosity as to how MR's TVC performs compared to MR's Musika preamp, technically speaking, the two are totally of different contraptions. But if i gauge them as to how they would appeal according to my listening taste or say, audio hobby, the TVC is somewhat tempered, mellowed and more sweet-sounding, but the over-all musicality and soundstage is maintained. And if you're looking for crispier and more defined detail and tubelike sound, i'll go for the active Musika tube preamp. Depending on the type of music i listen to, i alternate my Musika with the TVC, but i am more particular with the distinct sound of preamp tubes. You should try MR's TVC especially if your speaker are high efficiency or with high sensitivity and you can hear the distinct characteristics of the TVC over the active Musika preamp.

Thanks guys! Let's move on and maybe one day i should invite you all amd treat you with an avocado salad! :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby kabubi » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:59 am

hello Patrick,

after having read your post, i feel compelled to to offer a different perspective of things. staunch as i am as an avowed MR fan, i think that things have moved swiftly for the man from Conchu. whereas not too long ago we were a relatively intimate circle of privileged owners of Mang Rod's creations, more and more audio enthusiasts are beginning to take notice and their curiosities are piqued. thus, they demand satisfaction. if it is our goal to have more people enjoy the magic of MR's handmade amps, pre-amps and TVCs, we've got to shift paradigms. you may look at it as a necessary evil perhaps. as i've said to you just recently, TrodT can satisfy the questions of our tech and spec friends without necessarily having to reveal trade secrets.

so please allow me...

i called BenC to lecture me on the distinct topolgy of MR's TVC and his standard Musika preamp and i will try my best to echo his explanations. the TrodT TVC as Ben says, is a passive attenuator whose heart is a transformer that is the critical determinant of volume. and since Rod is quite arguably the master of the hand wound transformer, you and i know the tremendous potential of his TVC. and with all things being equal, then the price point unequivocally decides the winner, specially for those who are after value for money.

now about the Musika, groovy BenC explains further to me that Mang Rod has lovingly crafted a pre-amp that has the benefits of a line stage (2 actually) and the added bonus of a phono stage to satisfy even the most rabid and discrimianting vinyl shark from Bikini Bottom. now put this features together and add the funkiness of a gas tube, the audacity of driver and power tubes normally used for TVs during the psychedelic 60s, and mix that all up with honey from DC power brought about by tube regulation, then what you have, as groovy BenC says, is what is normally referred to as a "full pre-amp" of the active order, a Musika.

and lastly, to dear jack's question. how can we ignore his inquiry, eh? may i answer it in another way, Mr Speaker, not by defining them differently, rather by suggesting that the TrodT TVC and the Musika work best when connected TOGETHER. the mojo that is produced by both in synergy is pleasantly different than when they are utilized individually.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby TonyC » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:23 am

ESaudio wrote:
As regards Tony's pending query between MR's TVC and the Promethius TVC, there may be basic similarity in terms of topology and design between the two, but there really is a big difference. While both are transformer-based volume control, one disctinct dissimilarity between the two is that the Prometheus uses a solid 4N copper wire for its transformer wiring which weigh around 12lbs; while MR's TVC, he used a thin hair-like 38 guage copper wire and weighs very light about 3 to 5lbs . Does that make a difference in terms of its sonic quality? Again, without fear of being branded as bias, i should say that MR's TVC got the edge over Prometheus coz i have heard the two gadgets on one occasion. As Diana Krall's song says: let's "Do It Again".



Thanks Patrick, considering that the promitheus landed cost to me was twice what MR was offering, i could've seriously considered MR's device had i known about this :sweat: . Not to blame anyone nor regretful for having the Promitheus (of which i'm more than satisfied), I guess this is some of the perils of getting bang for the buck gadgets via DIY providers. Kudos to MR, Happy Easter to all!
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby skeesix » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:23 pm

[quote="JackD201"]At the moment Trodt for all intents and purposes is an artisan studio. Most output is commissioned and thus are unique. Only time and MR will tell if Trodt will scale production. If it happens however I am sure that measurements will be provided for production models for whatever they're worth.

The closest thing to scale production that MR has done if I am not mistaken is the Tomato MM/MC phono stage. Almost all that where made have the same design and inards except for the color which is specified by the buyer. Perhaps this can be a starting point. ;)
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby BenC » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:08 am

Hi Kaboobs!

Don't believe everything I tell you! ... ;) Remember the saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"? ... I must forewarn you that I'm a dangerous person! ... :devil: ... I have in my possession a huge stash of "dangerous things"! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I agree that specs are very important. For those who want to make a short list of equipments they wish to consider, specs is very important. Also, if the equipment one wishes to consider is not accessible for audition, the need for specs becomes greater. On the other hand, for those who have easy access to equipments they wish to consider/audition (you lucky souls!), an actual listening test will most likely suffice! ... (In my case, if I don't like what I hear, I wouldn't bother with the specs ... If however, I liked what I heard ... I too wouldn't bother with the specs! ) :) ... But still I believe in the importance of specs! They have their uses! 8)

So far what I have observed in the past (the accolades, cheerleading, etc) was an attempt to satisfy a clamor for specs. This however was presented in a different manner. Instead of technical specs, emotional specs was provided. As an example, though not necessarily accurate ... (Techie Guy: What's the bandwidth of the TVC? ... The Fan: Hanep ang lalim nung bass! Pati yung kalansing nung chimes at triangle ang linaw! Dinig na dinig ko! ... Techie Guy: How much attenuation will each stop of the TVC provide? ... The Fan: Hanep nasa kalahati na kami nung pihitan nung TVC maayos pa rin ang tunog! Malakas pero di masakit sa tenga. 23-steps daw yung pihitan!) ... For me it's like a blind person describing to another person what he sees using his sense of hearing, touch and smell. Kung baga, using whatever faculties you have. I guess, this is what happens when technically-challenged people (like me) try to explain something very technical (like specs, topology, power supply, etc)... In one's desire to shed light on the matter at hand, confusion instead sets in (just to satisfy a clamor for more info.) ... Kaya nga ba sabi ng Lolo't Lola ko "Less talk less mistake! No talk no mistake! ... Paano na ako nyan? If I apply this saying, I might be accused of withholding information or simply ignoring a request) ... Mahirap kung masabihan pa akong suplado o arogante :( ...

Kaya Kaboobs, ganyan lang talaga buhay kaya enjoy-enjoy na lang tayo! ... Antok na koooooo ......

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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby TheAnalogSource » Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:16 am

bumping up this thread for a rush question....

can MR TVC be use as an MC step Up?
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby ESaudio » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:25 pm

halls wrote:bumping up this thread for a rush question....

can MR TVC be use as an MC step Up?


Noli,

MR's TVC cannot be used as an MC step-up transformer. It merely functions as a passive preamp or volume control.

I suggest you try to audition the Compactron which is an active MM/MC tube phonostage.

Tnx!
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby Mamimili » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:30 pm

ESaudio wrote:
halls wrote:bumping up this thread for a rush question....

can MR TVC be use as an MC step Up?


Noli,

MR's TVC cannot be used as an MC step-up transformer. It merely functions as a passive preamp or volume control.

I suggest you try to audition the Compactron which is an active MM/MC tube phonostage.

Tnx!


I second that audition :clap:
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby kabubi » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:35 pm

Noly beybs,

the direct answer to your rush question is No.

BUT

Mang Rod can make you a dedicated active (tubed) MC step up to connect to your phono stage. the results may surprise you :)
better yet, call Mang Rod @ 522-1696 to find out more, including the name of the person(s) who commisioned MR to do said item for him/them.

hope this helps :)
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby TheAnalogSource » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:39 pm

Thanks for the answer.

just a thought as a friend is looking for an SUT... as you already well know, passive SUT such as the altec /FR have just transformers in them similar to the TVC. looking into the Promethius site, they even have a TVC for SUT purpose so i was thinking baka nga pwede eto gamitin as step up.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby pigdog » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:41 pm

halls you need to find out what the loading is, otherwise, it will sound really thin and even if the numbers are correct there is no guarranttee
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby TheAnalogSource » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:47 pm

pigdog wrote:halls you need to find out what the loading is, otherwise, it will sound really thin and even if the numbers are correct there is no guarranttee


thanks pigdog, do i read correct that it is theoretically possible....only that it should be within specs.
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby pigdog » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:02 pm

no guarranttees as i dont know anything about MRs volume control but from my experience even if the numbers are correct, with certain transformers, it does not always work if you want to experiment, i suggest you borrow it and try it out and make comparison but the fact that it is a volume control may not be a good idea for SUT duties. read JE's page on the use of Mike imput tranies as i find this very insightful and i have as you know accumulated several different varieties of trannies for SUT duties and each and everyone has a certain quality that may or may not work. also from experience, i tested a couple of mike imput tranies which has a 60K ohm output and it sounded so thin, that we have to get rid of it!
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby ESaudio » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:52 pm

halls wrote: x x x . looking into the Promethius site, they even have a TVC for SUT purpose so i was thinking baka nga pwede eto gamitin as step up.


A Prometheus TVC which can also be used as an SUT for MC carts is really a unique design!

We experimented it before but MR's TVC just won't work for direct use as an SUT. He is more into an all-tube MM/MC phonostage like the Compactron.

Like what ka buboy said:
kabubi wrote:Mang Rod can make you a dedicated active (tubed) MC step up to connect to your phono stage. x x x .


Kabubs!

Ano tawag n'yan? STEP-UP TUBE? :clap:
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Re: INTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby Audiogeek » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:02 pm

Since i cant afford this luxman for US$2.8k, im planning to order one from MR
to look like this. :D

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Re: REINTRODUCING: MANG ROD'S NEW TRANSFORMER VOLUME CONTROL

Postby ESaudio » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:30 am

While the Maestro has been busy exploring new tubes and designing new audio gears, the most that the Maestro has done on my existing Trodt gears is to upgrade either the driver tubes, the input tubes, or the power tubes like KT88 integ amp to KT120 which is sooner or later to be upgraded to KT150. But one upgrade that Maestro has done on one of my gears and which upgrade has just been set aside for almost three (3) years and almost forgotten is his Transformer Volume Control. What the Maestro did then on my TVC is to upgrade the transformers from 8,000 turns to 10,000 turns. Yes, 10,000 turns manually of the second finest, if not the finest gauge, of copper wire he used. The Gm70 amp was not even born yet when the upgrade was made. But I did not devote much time to hook it up and listen to it. Few hours ago, I recalled my TVC which was already boxed and kept in my cache of unused gears. So, I took it out, unpacked it and hook it up with my Gm70 SET and my Compactron phonostage. Then, spin on the table first with Yanni's Cameleon Days, then on to Duets with Willie Nelson, then with Doc Severinsen and His Orchestra, and on and on with few more tracks. In short, the night was truly a night of new listening experience with the reincarnated TVC. This set-up will definitely stay long for my listening pleasure unless the Maestro comes up with another gear worthy of refining and redefining my system. :D :D :D

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