Lenco's R Us

classic analog rigs Thorens, Garrard, Lenco, EMT, etc..

Moderators: setup1, setup2

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby kabubi » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:57 pm

Not to burst your bubble but Euro is 50Hz


even during the 60s?
User avatar
kabubi
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 5476
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:28 pm

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Jon Agner » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:58 pm

kabubi wrote:
Verdugo wrote:
i am lucky (i think) as mine was purchased in the Netherlands. chances are, it may be 60hz.
Not to burst your bubble but Euro is 50Hz


*ulk* :(

time to call Andrew Sevilla :)

PS. i'd love to have a Lenco forum here in WS! thanx for the gesture, Lito :)


He already has a circuit in mind ;) We'll just have to make sure that the voltage is variable so it can be used for most types of motors
User avatar
Jon Agner
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 10567
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:48 pm
Location: Sa isang kabukiran na malapit sa tabing dagat

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Jon Agner » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:59 pm

kabubi wrote:
Not to burst your bubble but Euro is 50Hz


even during the 60s?


Yup. electrical distribution here is patterned after the US, which is at 60 hz
User avatar
Jon Agner
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 10567
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:48 pm
Location: Sa isang kabukiran na malapit sa tabing dagat

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby kabubi » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:11 pm

Jon Agner wrote:
kabubi wrote:
Not to burst your bubble but Euro is 50Hz


even during the 60s?


Yup. electrical distribution here is patterned after the US, which is at 60 hz


i'm still clinging to the last vestiges of hope that my motor is at 60Hz. what is the best way to find out, Sensei?
User avatar
kabubi
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 5476
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:28 pm

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Jon Agner » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:13 pm

borrow a tachometer ;)
User avatar
Jon Agner
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 10567
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:48 pm
Location: Sa isang kabukiran na malapit sa tabing dagat

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby kabubi » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:34 pm

Jon Agner wrote:borrow a tachometer ;)


is this the same as the speed detector sold by Super Jen?
User avatar
kabubi
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 5476
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:28 pm

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Jon Agner » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:44 pm

kabubi wrote:
Jon Agner wrote:borrow a tachometer ;)


is this the same as the speed detector sold by Super Jen?


Yup, same one. The good Doctor Stereophile may also have that in his tool box. You can confirm it with him :)
User avatar
Jon Agner
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 10567
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:48 pm
Location: Sa isang kabukiran na malapit sa tabing dagat

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby setup2 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:00 pm

Nice one, Paul! Hope to see the final outcome of your project soon...

Going to the other topic regarding the 50hz - 60hz thing... Jon, nice to hear that something came out from our talk at home when I asked you about this when I was working on the EMTs with the same problem some months ago... I think the power supply of the VPIs and Clearaudios are frequency converters but for low wattage motors... Won't work with the huge motors of the EMTs, or even the Lencos, I think the Rek-o-Kut have huge motors,too... The Lenco motor looks small but in reality, it is bigger than the motor of a TD124... Ask Mr. Sevilla about this... I think this is the stumbling block for frequency converters, unless you want to buy the industrial types available, the smallest, 1KVA :D

Regards,
Joel
setup2
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:27 am
Location: Quezon City

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby setup1 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:31 pm

Mamimili wrote:The guy with the Malaysia destined Lenco did not blink an eye................
......and never even thought about Hz when he purchased his Lenco :o


Hi Paul,

You knew what you were doing. I was about to leave when I posted the caveat on the Lenco motor and forgot to mention, I'm anxious to see the outcome of your Lenco project!

Incidentally the book Swiss Precision is a good reference for vintage idler turntable aficionados. It focuses mainly on The TD124, a couple of pages on the EMT and then Garrard 301/401, Lencos, Braun, Rek-O-Kuts as well as vintage Ortofon and SME tonearms.

Back to.......

50hz vs. 60hz

According to Joachim Bung, the author of Swiss Precision, only a handful ROKs were imported into Europe. This explains why when I registered at Lenco Lovers I received a few PMs from Europeans who want to try the cheap ROKs in the USA. However because of the permanently attached phenolic type pulley, there's no easy way a US spec'ed ROK can be made to work in the EU. Similar dilemma as the Lenco. So logically for the budget conscious; 50hz world can opt for a Lenco while 60hz citizens should consider a ROK.

As Joel said, it is not as simple to design a frequency converter for an idler type turntable. Compare the size of a belt drive motor to an idler drive, it is a no brainer.....

je.
User avatar
setup1
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 1:20 pm
Location: USA

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Mamimili » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:31 pm

setup1 wrote:
Mamimili wrote:The guy with the Malaysia destined Lenco did not blink an eye................
......and never even thought about Hz when he purchased his Lenco :o


Hi Paul,

You knew what you were doing. I was about to leave when I posted the caveat on the Lenco motor and forgot to mention, I'm anxious to see the outcome of your Lenco project!

Incidentally the book Swiss Precision is a good reference for vintage idler turntable aficionados. It focuses mainly on The TD124, a couple of pages on the EMT and then Garrard 301/401, Lencos, Braun, Rek-O-Kuts as well as vintage Ortofon and SME tonearms.

Back to.......

50hz vs. 60hz

According to Joachim Bung, the author of Swiss Precision, only a handful ROKs were imported into Europe. This explains why when I registered at Lenco Lovers I received a few PMs from Europeans who want to try the cheap ROKs in the USA. However because of the permanently attached phenolic type pulley, there's no easy way a US spec'ed ROK can be made to work in the EU. Similar dilemma as the Lenco. So logically for the budget conscious; 50hz world can opt for a Lenco while 60hz citizens should consider a ROK.

As Joel said, it is not as simple to design a frequency converter for an idler type turntable. Compare the size of a belt drive motor to an idler drive, it is a no brainer.....

je.


Hello Joseph

Here's the first thought to enter my head, hopefully not too dumb.
As my Lenco is in the UK, this is pure conjecture based on looking at Lenco motors on eBay.

Is the idler wheel in contact with the long tapered spindle coming out of the motor?
If so, i assume speed change is done by moving the idler up and down the taper.
So, using a tacho to verify speed, bend the idler arm slightly until it contacts the correct part of the cone to run the platter at the correct speed / to match the speed markings on the top of the deck.
Tacho's are cheap (if you buy from our friendly neighbourhood Superman).

2nd thought, i read that Lenco speed is infinitely variable? So assuming there is enough speed range, just adjust using the above tacho to verify speed.
With a speed range of some 14 - 80 rpm at 50Hz, i assume that 33.3 and 45 should be attainable.
User avatar
Mamimili
Master
Master
 
Posts: 4310
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Subang

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Mamimili » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:57 pm

I had a better idea, take a look at the Lenco Lovers website as someone must have answered the frequency question.

There are a few answers, here's the link http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=867

Voltage, the good news is some motors can be connected for both 240v and 110v :clap: :clap:
The bad news is how to tell if you have a dual voltage motor, i will keep reading.

For frequency, they suggest a simple mechanical answer - turn down the tapered spindle by 20%.

However, i still think my first idea is worth a try, look at his spindle measurements for 33 and 45 rpm on both shafts, it must be possible to adjust (sounds better than bend?) the idler wheel arm to run on the correct diameter for the required speed.

Or just connect the motor (if dual voltage) for 110v and adjust speed to suit ignoring the speed markings on the deck 8)

My only worry now is if it's as simple as i think, why hasn't anyone done it this way before????
User avatar
Mamimili
Master
Master
 
Posts: 4310
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Subang

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Mamimili » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:25 pm

kabubi wrote:i am lucky (i think) as mine was purchased in the Netherlands. chances are, it may be 60hz.

re the question on a GL75, methinks this is the rebadged "Goldring" Lenco hence, the "G" added to the L75 :?:


Somehow you need to find out if you have a dual voltage motor........

Correct for "Goldring Lenco" as in GL.

I have a tacho i will not be using between December 14 and 23, let me know if you want to borrow it.
User avatar
Mamimili
Master
Master
 
Posts: 4310
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Subang

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Mamimili » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:30 pm

stereophile wrote:May I recommend that VD set-up a Lenco's R Us forum. In addition, may I recommend that Paul/Mamimili & Buboy/Kabubi be co-moderators.

What do you think, guys? :)


Good idea Lito, but Is WiredState ready for an English only moderator????????? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I suppose i could nip down to National Book Store and buy a Tagalog - English dictionary, or ask one of my daughters to travel with me, poor girl...........
User avatar
Mamimili
Master
Master
 
Posts: 4310
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Subang

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby TheAnalogSource » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:49 am

we are using frequency inverter... from an input of 60hz...you can choose what frequency output you want to speed up or slow down motors. there are now smaller capacity as low as 1/4 hp which are designed for household appliances which i think could be use.

here's a link....

http://www.omron-ap.com.ph/product_info/3G3JX/index.asp

;) 8)

buboy, if you can wait until first quarter next year....i think i can help as im setting up a electro-mechanical team for a new venture. ;) :)
User avatar
TheAnalogSource
Where beautiful music begins
 
Posts: 7465
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:10 am
Location: THE ANALOG SOURCE

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby vintage_dog » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:06 am

stereophile wrote:May I recommend that VD set-up a Lenco's R Us forum. In addition, may I recommend that Paul/Mamimili & Buboy/Kabubi be co-moderators.

What do you think, guys? :)


Thanks for the suggestion.

We are actually creating an Idlers Turnatable Forum, combining the Thorens and Garrard plus other idler types like Lenco. I have sometime ago asked Joel (setup2) for him and Joseph (setup1) to co-moderate and both have agreed.

We'll surely keep in mind Paul, Buboy and others to moderate other threads that need help. Thanks again.
User avatar
vintage_dog
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:35 pm
Location: south of town

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby stereophile » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:53 am

Paul- You are so correct. The pulley in a L75 is tapered(don't know about the other models). If set to 33 or 45 rpm at 50hz, it will run fast when hooked to our 220v 60hz. With a digital tachometer you can set the speed lever to the appropriate taper in the pulley. Once you know where 33 1/3 & 45rpm is along the speed lever travel, you can reset the 'speed locks'(pardon me for lack of better words). There is no need to machine the pulley down. Mark the new location of 33 1/3 & 45 rpm with decals. :)
User avatar
stereophile
vinyl junkie
 
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:59 pm
Location: in the dark(room)...

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby Mamimili » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:04 am

stereophile wrote:Paul- You are so correct. The pulley in a L75 is tapered(don't know about the other models). If set to 33 or 45 rpm at 50hz, it will run fast when hooked to our 220v 60hz. With a digital tachometer you can set the speed lever to the appropriate taper in the pulley. Once you know where 33 1/3 & 45rpm is along the speed lever travel, you can reset the 'speed locks'(pardon me for lack of better words). There is no need to machine the pulley down. Mark the new location of 33 1/3 & 45 rpm with decals. :)


Made my day Lito 8)
I just could not understand why nobody had suggested it, so i thought there must be a reason but decided to risk ridicule and test the "theory" :lol:

I think all Lenco motors are interchangable between models.
I will now sleep :)
User avatar
Mamimili
Master
Master
 
Posts: 4310
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm
Location: Subang

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby stereophile » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:21 am

Mamimili wrote:Made my day Lito 8)...

I will now sleep :)


Paul- I'm glad to help you out. Same goes with me, its sleep time. I just got home from an X-mas party. Running on too much alcohol.... :D
User avatar
stereophile
vinyl junkie
 
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:59 pm
Location: in the dark(room)...

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby setup2 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:14 am

stereophile wrote:Paul- You are so correct. The pulley in a L75 is tapered(don't know about the other models). If set to 33 or 45 rpm at 50hz, it will run fast when hooked to our 220v 60hz. With a digital tachometer you can set the speed lever to the appropriate taper in the pulley. Once you know where 33 1/3 & 45rpm is along the speed lever travel, you can reset the 'speed locks'(pardon me for lack of better words). There is no need to machine the pulley down. Mark the new location of 33 1/3 & 45 rpm with decals. :)


A guy in Lenco lovers has done this, though you will lose the 16 speed, does anybody have 16 LPs?... Another, is that your setting will be getting close to the end of the taper...

Here is the link: http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewt ... 12&start=0

Hope it also works for you...

Regards,
Joel
setup2
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:27 am
Location: Quezon City

Re: Lenco's R Us

Postby setup2 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:47 am

Mamimili wrote:I had a better idea, take a look at the Lenco Lovers website as someone must have answered the frequency question.

There are a few answers, here's the link http://www.lenco-lovers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=867

Voltage, the good news is some motors can be connected for both 240v and 110v :clap: :clap:
The bad news is how to tell if you have a dual voltage motor, i will keep reading.

For frequency, they suggest a simple mechanical answer - turn down the tapered spindle by 20%.

However, i still think my first idea is worth a try, look at his spindle measurements for 33 and 45 rpm on both shafts, it must be possible to adjust (sounds better than bend?) the idler wheel arm to run on the correct diameter for the required speed.

Or just connect the motor (if dual voltage) for 110v and adjust speed to suit ignoring the speed markings on the deck 8)

My only worry now is if it's as simple as i think, why hasn't anyone done it this way before????


Hello Paul,

Think I missed this post... sometimes it will be easy to know if the motor is adjustable, some units works ala TD124, there is a selector screw, you just move it to the proper voltage, it can be seen as soon as you remove the platter... IN the recent unit I refurbished, owned by a fellow WS member, this was the case... I have seen in Lenco lovers another type... you have to move the wires to the proper points in the strip, have not encountered this yet, I'm also not sure it you have to take out the motor to do this..

Regards,
Joel
setup2
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:27 am
Location: Quezon City

PreviousNext

Return to IDLER TURNTABLES

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron