Stereophile w/ son XAVIER and a non-glossy 301

classic analog rigs Thorens, Garrard, Lenco, EMT, etc..

Moderators: setup1, setup2

Stereophile w/ son XAVIER and a non-glossy 301

Postby joe3rp » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:37 am

Doc w/ son
Image
The main rig in the background
Image
Note the Oscar Peterson Vocal LP - grease bearing 301 w/ FR64 tonearm and Denon dl103r. Sorry for the fingerprints, it was raining really bad that day
Image
joe3rp
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1473
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:58 pm

garrard 301

Postby odaey » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:45 am

SMOOTH SATIN FINISH . THAT'S REALLY NICE :P
odaey
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:35 pm

Postby stereophile » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:53 am

Rodney- Thanks for your comments. Sadly it's just a loaner. The satin finish on this very heavy plinth is indeed beautiful.

I have a BIG problem...my 4 y/o son, Xavier, was beaming with pride(as Joey & I set my 301 down on his plinth)and said: Papa, that's mine :!: All I could say was: No, son, the plinth & arm are Tito Joey's. Yes, the 301 is yours... :cry:

My SL-1200 Mk3 was commandeered by my 2nd daughter, Annika. :cry: My Bling-Bling SL-1200 Ltd Ed was spoken for by my eldest daughter, Megan. :cry: :cry: Now Xavier appropriated the GB 301 :!: :cry: :cry: :cry: What's gonna happen next? I've got one more son, Ben :?: :!: :shock: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
User avatar
stereophile
vinyl junkie
 
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:59 pm
Location: in the dark(room)...

Postby John Martin » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:36 am

He's gonna get the Michell Orbe :lol: :lol:
User avatar
John Martin
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1472
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:29 pm

Postby vintage_dog » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:09 am

so will it be the satin or glossy finish for the 301? :wink:

whatever it will be, it sure will be a real looker!
User avatar
vintage_dog
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:35 pm
Location: south of town

Postby amandarae » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:39 am

Ahhh....Xavier will know in due time.

When the Garrard is ready, he can just wait and watch his papa for which one gets more playing time. I am rooting for the Garrard even if the Orbe has an SME V and a Lyra cart :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice table doc! Please keep us in the loop on what plinth you ended up choosing. Could it be that it will end up having a plinth not made of wood at all? I am smelling something on the horizon.....let's rock and roll!

Anyways, very nice table sir! Looks very fresh from my vantage point. An excellent find!!!
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby pigdog » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:20 am

Better locate a 401 Pronto! :D

stereophile wrote:Rodney- Thanks for your comments. Sadly it's just a loaner. The satin finish on this very heavy plinth is indeed beautiful.

I have a BIG problem...my 4 y/o son, Xavier, was beaming with pride(as Joey & I set my 301 down on his plinth)and said: Papa, that's mine :!: All I could say was: No, son, the plinth & arm are Tito Joey's. Yes, the 301 is yours... :cry:

My SL-1200 Mk3 was commandeered by my 2nd daughter, Annika. :cry: My Bling-Bling SL-1200 Ltd Ed was spoken for by my eldest daughter, Megan. :cry: :cry: Now Xavier appropriated the GB 301 :!: :cry: :cry: :cry: What's gonna happen next? I've got one more son, Ben :?: :!: :shock: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
User avatar
pigdog
Master
Master
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:39 pm
Location: munchkin land

Postby stereophile » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:21 am

amandarae wrote:Ahhh....Xavier will know in due time.

When the Garrard is ready, he can just wait and watch his papa for which one gets more playing time. I am rooting for the Garrard even if the Orbe has an SME V and a Lyra cart :lol: :lol: :lol:


Abe- I'm toying with the idea of also using the SME V/Lyra on the 301. The Orbe uses an armboard. I'm trying to figure how to use the same armboard, so that I simply drop it in when I want to use the SME V on it. I still have the Rega armboard for my Orbe. I'm thinking of using the same mounting holes so I can swap between SME & Rega armboards when I choose to.

I've got to hand it to my 4 y/o son. Even without the plinth he was drawn to the GB 301. Mind you, he hasn't heard a 301 played till yesterday.
User avatar
stereophile
vinyl junkie
 
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:59 pm
Location: in the dark(room)...

Postby pigdog » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:27 am

Beautiful Plinth! i am always proud of the plinths coming from Manila and i have always showed off the plinth that BonD Made for my Garrard, Joey's is just as beautiful and what is really good are both into audio, hence they not only make beautiful plinths, but plinths that are sonically nice for the ttables. in Hongkong, most of the folks here think that china makes them well, in reality they just use cheap plywood and veneer and the finishing is nothing special, but charge an arm and a leg for it!
User avatar
pigdog
Master
Master
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:39 pm
Location: munchkin land

Postby stereophile » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:34 am

pigdog wrote:Better locate a 401 Pronto! :D


Chester- I know what you are driving at. My other son will ask me someday why his older sibling is getting a Garrard 301(granting that it still runs)... I wonder how much then a 301 will fetch then when it's time to pass it on to the next generation... :roll:
User avatar
stereophile
vinyl junkie
 
Posts: 4829
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 9:59 pm
Location: in the dark(room)...

Postby pigdog » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:45 am

a lot of money! :D its funny how 2-3 years ago the garrards are fetichin around GBP150-200 for a grease bearing and somithing like GBP50 at the audio jumble in northen england, now these tables are so expensive. the god thing about garrards and thorens is that there are several people out there who can fix it, an there is also Loricraft in the UK who can do a total overhaul and thanks to shindo for making these tables valuable again, no doubt your 301 will still be around for the next 20-30 years! i have heard horror stories of kids turning these turtables to playthings and one even used it as a turntable for pottery! and it still keeps spinning and spinning! IF i were you, bestr to look for a spare motor just in case!
User avatar
pigdog
Master
Master
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:39 pm
Location: munchkin land

Postby amandarae » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:51 am

Hello Chester,

Off topic, have you heard a Garrard with Shindo bearings and platter?

At the going rate of Grease bearings nowadays (especially the grey hammertone ones), it is not a bad idea to get the "Shindo treatment" at all for an oil bearing compared to playing the hit or miss game of acquiring a GB Grey Hammertone finish.

What do you think?

Abe
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby pigdog » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:59 am

i agree with you Abe, in fact it is still possible to find really nice condition oil bearings. i once bought an almost unused oil bearing early this year complete with original hardbound manual with matching serial no. had to sell it at some point as i needed the funds! :( i spoked to shindo about the upgrade but the asking $$is outrageous. i think just being able to own a good condition garrard is aleady a good thing, i did went out looking for a spare motor, and that is not easy to come by as it took me nearly a year to find one and that was on ebay from a seller who was selling parts from his garrard that he took apart and selling bit by bit since i loved vintage audio, i also went out of the way to look for a spare motor for my thorens td124, also hard to come by
User avatar
pigdog
Master
Master
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:39 pm
Location: munchkin land

Postby amandarae » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:15 pm

I see. The shindo "package" cost about $2800 here from an importer. Would you mind telling me, if you have the info and if it is lower than that, the price you got quoted for?

You know, I seem to remember that garrard motor for sale on Ebay. I believe it was around may/June this year. It seems that you were the lucky guy if that is the one.

Yeah, the TD124 motor is hard to come by and not often. It seems easier to buy a complete table than waiting for the motor to appear for sale. Sad is the state of the vintage parts availability nowadays unless you want to spend some real hard cash. The demand is incredible! All of a sudden, everyone is looking for them!

regards,

Abe
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby pigdog » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:03 pm

the shindo package that was quoted to you is very reasonable, i was quoted for a full shindo treatment at almost USD10,000 ands that includes the tonearm! and yes the garrard motor that you saw in ebay was bought by yours truly! :D
User avatar
pigdog
Master
Master
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:39 pm
Location: munchkin land

Postby odaey » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:10 pm

stereophile wrote:
amandarae wrote:Ahhh....Xavier will know in due time.

When the Garrard is ready, he can just wait and watch his papa for which one gets more playing time. I am rooting for the Garrard even if the Orbe has an SME V and a Lyra cart :lol: :lol: :lol:


Abe- I'm toying with the idea of also using the SME V/Lyra on the 301. The Orbe uses an armboard. I'm trying to figure how to use the same armboard, so that I simply drop it in when I want to use the SME V on it. I still have the Rega armboard for my Orbe. I'm thinking of using the same mounting holes so I can swap between SME & Rega armboards when I choose to.

I've got to hand it to my 4 y/o son. Even without the plinth he was drawn to the GB 301. Mind you, he hasn't heard a 301 played till yesterday.



I actually use the same SME arm board from michell when i swap tonearms with my garrard. Fits like a dream,the rega armboard is a bit thicker though.
odaey
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:35 pm

Postby ambel » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:58 pm

pigdog wrote:
its funny how 2-3 years ago the garrards are fetichin around GBP150-200 for a grease bearing and somithing like GBP50 at the audio jumble in northen england, now these tables are so expensive


I started monitoring Garrard 301 US Ebay prices since 1999. The price range were at US$400 to US$800. I was offered a Thorens 124 way back then for US$400 and i decline it since i though it was pricey. Because I was a junkyard dog at that time. I used to buy 45, 6SN7, 71A and some tubes for a buck at the TRW and Pomona swap meets. Got my grease 301 in 2001 for a steep price of US$800.

amandarae wrote:
Off topic, have you heard a Garrard with Shindo bearings and platter?

At the going rate of Grease bearings nowadays (especially the grey hammertone ones), it is not a bad idea to get the "Shindo treatment" at all for an oil bearing compared to playing the hit or miss game of acquiring a GB Grey Hammertone finish.

What do you think?



I heard the Shindo platter, bearing, and plinth and it is more quiet and has
a better ability in retrieving nuances, and information. But i still go for the
grease bearing since Garrard uses the AC induction motor. The grease bearing increases the motor's effective drag and in return damps the speed variation and vibration. That's the the grease is sought after.[b]
ambel
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:02 am

Postby amandarae » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:43 am

ambel wrote:pigdog wrote:
its funny how 2-3 years ago the garrards are fetichin around GBP150-200 for a grease bearing and somithing like GBP50 at the audio jumble in northen england, now these tables are so expensive


I started monitoring Garrard 301 US Ebay prices since 1999. The price range were at US$400 to US$800. I was offered a Thorens 124 way back then for US$400 and i decline it since i though it was pricey. Because I was a junkyard dog at that time. I used to buy 45, 6SN7, 71A and some tubes for a buck at the TRW and Pomona swap meets. Got my grease 301 in 2001 for a steep price of US$800.

amandarae wrote:
Off topic, have you heard a Garrard with Shindo bearings and platter?

At the going rate of Grease bearings nowadays (especially the grey hammertone ones), it is not a bad idea to get the "Shindo treatment" at all for an oil bearing compared to playing the hit or miss game of acquiring a GB Grey Hammertone finish.

What do you think?



I heard the Shindo platter, bearing, and plinth and it is more quiet and has
a better ability in retrieving nuances, and information. But i still go for the
grease bearing since Garrard uses the AC induction motor. The grease bearing increases the motor's effective drag and in return damps the speed variation and vibration. That's the the grease is sought after.[b]


Hello ambel,

Where are you at?
Pomona is about 5 miles away from where I live.(Diamond Bar).

I agree that the GB helps to increase the effective drag of the motor. But isn't it that it is the same reason why most aftermarket platter (Shindo) and bearing upgrades for the Garrard involves higher mass platter also? The higher mass damps the vibration, increase the inertia, and in turn helps on the effective drag as well.

I could be wrong but this topic was discussed many times on the Teres and Galibier threads in audio forums.

From my reading, my understanding is that the achilles tendon of the Garrard, wether its oil or grease bearing is the flat surface contact on the bearing itself. This is why a lot of aftermarket tweaks involves a bearing with much higher tolerance and a spherical ball on the bottom (ceramic, tungsten, etc.).

It is difficult to get a GB Garrard these days. But it is not impossible! I have seen White GB on Ebay for $1500 twice just this past month. I just can't pull the trigger because I still have some things I need to understand. I wrote inquiries about each model to some of my friends who once owned both and to some inmates at AA. Brian Kearns (B.K.) and many other at AA owns multiple units of both types of 301's. Yet, he is now swearing about the Shindo bearing and platter. That is the reason why I ask about the Shindo. I want to have a feel if it is worth the investment or not.

Thanks for posting your valuable input.

Best regards,

Abe
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby ambel » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:18 am

Abe,

I am base in Manila now. I know Diamond Bar i used to go to a buddy in Chino Hills.
You are right on that high mass platter damps vibration. My other TT is
the Acoustic Signature Final Tool which claims that their Tidorfon bearing
is one the best and indestructible. But I like Garrard GB it's more engaging
and musical. Here is my take on Garrard oil bearing and platter uprade. I think increasing mass and a more efficient bearing is beneficial. But for the GB if you want to increase the effective motor drag. You can use a heavier weight grease say 30W or heavier. One thing about the GB. The drag is constant because of the viscosity. Unlike the oil once inertia moves in and the platter spin settles. the motor drag is reduce. To add to that if you got a more efficient bearing upgrade you further lessen the motor drag. So it's better to get a GB and upgrade the platter. Hey that's just my 2 cent.

Erik,[/b]
ambel
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:02 am


Return to IDLER TURNTABLES

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests