Humming or Grounded? RESOLVED!!!

classic analog rigs Thorens, Garrard, Lenco, EMT, etc..

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Humming or Grounded? RESOLVED!!!

Postby nad_obed » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:43 pm

Dear WS Gurus,

Obviously need help. I got a TD166 MkII using a Shure VSTIII cart (MM). When I got this baby from a an expat friend, I initially paired it w a solid state integ amp w/ built in phono stage. SS Amp did not have dedicated grounding screw so I got some humming. When I used an independent ground, humming was reduced. Major humming goes on and off when I tweak the left and right RCA jacks of the TT.
So I tried to isolate the humming/grounded sound by hooking the TT to a Yamaha AVR w/ a built in phono input. Humming/Grounded sound persists. Yamaha AVR has a designated grounding screw, humming disappears but comes back intermittently. I am not really that crazy into analog yet, so I have not been using my TT very often. Recently, I bought a tube phonostage from Levi who got this phonostage from JojoD who designed it.

Today, I hooked the TT to the phonoamp and then to an MT-35 integ tube amp. Phonostage has an independent ground screw/pin, so no problem.
However, humming still exists but not as loud as I hear it from my SS integ amp and my Yamaha AVR. Bearable, but it is still there especially when volume hits the 10 o'clock an up. When I play a vinyl, humming disappears at any volume level. When I pickup the magnetic pickup cartridge, soft humming comes back. Even by handling the metal tonearm LIFT, humming results. I know this tonearm metal lift is not even connected electrically to the cart. I checked the TT's manual. The color coded pins are right on w/the color coded wires (white, blue, red, and green for the ground).

What's strange is the humming disappears when TT isplaying a vinyl.

I am thinking that the cart has been magnetized, as such lifting the arm results to humming. Could this happen?

Has anyone got any experience like this? Appreciate your help.

Push comes to shove, where can I have this baby diagbosed completely?

note : no humming when a vinyl is on play...so bearable sya. Pero syempre, kainis kapag nagtataas ng karayom, nagha-hum ng konti.
Last edited by nad_obed on Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dannyb » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:59 pm

It could be the ground wire on your tonearm is faulty. Another reason is a ground loop. If you use single ended rca interconnects and some power cables are a mix of 2 & 3 prong a ground loop can result. Also are you sure there are no lights near your turntable? If there are try turning them off and see what happens.
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Postby nad_obed » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:12 pm

dannyb wrote:It could be the ground wire on your tonearm is faulty. Another reason is a ground loop. If you use single ended rca interconnects and some power cables are a mix of 2 & 3 prong a ground loop can result. Also are you sure there are no lights near your turntable? If there are try turning them off and see what happens.



Thanks Sir Danny...no lights near TT. You & Hypertriode gave the same comments just now. I guess I have to have this baby confined tmrw at Filmore Hospital sa Makati. Thx.
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Postby conspicuous » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:16 pm

nad_obed, i am a proud owner of a thorens td166 mkII as well! the cart i have on it is a grado gold moving iron cartridge. this cart is known to produce hum but mostly with direct drive 'tables where the motor is directly underneath the spindle. humming is more pronounced as you get to the end of a record. however, the 166 is not direct drive and therefore i do not hear any hum with the grado gold.

a few years ago i did have annoying hum :x it would come and go even if my phonostage or integrated amp with phono were grounded :x the humming was more pronounced or could be modulated by playing around with the rca jacks :? to make a long story short i brought my 'table to rene rivo and he changed the rca jack and interconnect output wires to xlo and no more hum! :D :D

i bought my td166 second hand but in mint condition back in 1989. through the years the cheap original rca just go bad with time. i suggest you have them changed and upgraded.

hope this helps :)
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Postby nad_obed » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:21 pm

Sir Danny,

Am using a 3 prong power cable for the Tube Phonostage by JojoD. As for the turntable, L & R RCA's plus one ground wire sya. TT'a power cable is a regular two prong. But like I mentioned, whether SS Integ Amp, AVR or Tube Integ Amp (wd tube phonostage)...may humming.

Pero pinaka mahina humming sa tube combo. Ang humming comes from the tonearm when I handle it. Baka nga may open ground sa tonearm, will have it checked tmrw. Thanks Sir.
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Postby nad_obed » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:30 am

Sir Conspicuous,

Your experience is exactly as mine. Indeed the RCA wires and jacks looks brittle na. And plating w/ it do reduces the humming. Will follow your advise, overall, your input plus Sir Danny will be noted as I bring this baby to Master Rene.

Thanks.
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Postby egay » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:26 am

Nad, assuming the amps/pre/PS are well made (i would believe they are) humming has nothing to do with them - your suspect should be the table iteself. it's old. old things break easily. connectors get loose, especially the old-type RCAs; they corrode.

and yes, ground loop needs to be chaecked as well.

simplest: did you check if your RCAs/ICs are still solid, no loose wires or loose connections?

one guy i know went crazy replacing his fuses because power was intermittent, only to find-out one solder in the plug was loose :o ... you might have a similar situation... some loose wire strands could result to the same symptoms.

stay cool!
.e.
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Postby nad_obed » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:09 pm

Sir Egay,

Salamat sa advice. Walang katulad talaga dito sa WS.
Checked the IC's, their ok.
From the time I got this TT, RCA talaga ang suspect ko, but did not have the time to have it checked.

Am bringing this to Rene this afternoon.

Makatingin na rin ng vinyls. hehehe

Thanks uli.
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Thorens TD166 MkII "Back to Life"

Postby nad_obed » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:22 pm

Dear All,

Master Rivo changed the RCA jacks this afternoon and Thorens was brought back to its youthful and energetic "musica".

Bought a few vinyls, listened and "beer" never tasted better this evening.

Thanks to the tips and experienced feedbacks, nakaligtas ako sa malaki laking gastusin.
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Postby conspicuous » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:52 pm

yep, those rca jacks just go bad with time alright. the td166mkII came out in 1987-1989 so our 'tables are nearing the end of teenagehood! i love this 'table. it could do with a better arm though. i'm thinking of having rene upgrade the arm to a rb250 or rb300 in the future. but as is it does do the job quite well especially with the grado gold cart.

have fun with your 'table man. be sure also to adjust the 3 springs underneath to make the platter parallel to the plinth. :D
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Postby nad_obed » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:02 pm

conspicuous wrote:yep, those rca jacks just go bad with time alright. the td166mkII came out in 1987-1989 so our 'tables are nearing the end of teenagehood! i love this 'table. it could do with a better arm though. i'm thinking of having rene upgrade the arm to a rb250 or rb300 in the future. but as is it does do the job quite well especially with the grado gold cart.

have fun with your 'table man. be sure also to adjust the 3 springs underneath to make the platter parallel to the plinth. :D


Thanks Sir Conspicuous, will take note of your input on the 3 springs.
You mentioned your using a Grado Gold Cart. As I am new to the vinyl world, is this better than the Shure VST cart III that I am using? Some say high end na daw kasi itong VSTIII and costs around P11k pesoses daw.

Appreciate your advise dahil Master Rivo told me na kapag nagpalit ako, stylus na lang daw ang palitan ko. Malaki po ba ang diskwento kapag stylus compared to complete cart assy?
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Postby conspicuous » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:56 pm

nad_obed wrote:
conspicuous wrote:yep, those rca jacks just go bad with time alright. the td166mkII came out in 1987-1989 so our 'tables are nearing the end of teenagehood! i love this 'table. it could do with a better arm though. i'm thinking of having rene upgrade the arm to a rb250 or rb300 in the future. but as is it does do the job quite well especially with the grado gold cart.

have fun with your 'table man. be sure also to adjust the 3 springs underneath to make the platter parallel to the plinth. :D


Thanks Sir Conspicuous, will take note of your input on the 3 springs.
You mentioned your using a Grado Gold Cart. As I am new to the vinyl world, is this better than the Shure VST cart III that I am using? Some say high end na daw kasi itong VSTIII and costs around P11k pesoses daw.

Appreciate your advise dahil Master Rivo told me na kapag nagpalit ako, stylus na lang daw ang palitan ko. Malaki po ba ang diskwento kapag stylus compared to complete cart assy?


you're welcome bro! grado gold costs the same so i suppose they are similar in level of quality but maybe different in sound signature. i find grado great for mids (e.g., voices) and slightly boomy bass :) changing stylus would be cheaper definitely. providing over the years the cart assy wasn't exposed to extreme conditions that would allow dirt to enter the cart body and gunk up the coils.
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