AB-1 revisited
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:54 am
interesting thread on ls35a forum...
From: KI ARCHITECT <kiarch@t...>
Date: Mon Jun 7, 2004 8:20 am
Subject: Re: [ls35a] AB/1s revisited...
Hi Dave,
The reason why AB-1 without the spikes seems to work better in your system is
because the frequency from AB-1 is slightly diffused. When I was searching for
the right position of AB-1, I removed the spikes for ease of shifting about, but
my wooden parquet flooring was not the best workmanship that you can expect, its
not well levelled. So, you could be right. The fact that you have got it to
sound good to you is more important than anything else! Congratulation Dave.
IMHO, the fact that you mentioned "With the spikes there is certainly bass but
it has no texture or definition" is due to the sound from AB-1, even with 6"
apart, has overlaid into the frequency of LS3/5a coupled with its sound energy
is too 'powerful' that has overpowered the LS3/5a. Hence you have more bass but
lacking in texture and definition. Why? Because texture and definition of bass
comes from LS3/5a and not AB-1.
There are many issues need to look at in matching AB-1 to LS3/5a, one is a
frequency bandwidth crossovers between AB-1 and LS3/5a, next is their 'energy'
level matching. Frequency crossover is commonly said and it is well understood.
Energy matching is less been mentioned and some said sound characteristics
differences, which is again another thing all together. So is Timing. But energy
in sound means "strenght", they may sound similar in characters and at the same
timing but they can be huge in difference in their strenght.
It is particularly critical to get the equipment to sound right before judging
the sound from AB-1. Laurie mentioned "vibration control", I am into that for a
long time and I applied forces transfer in building structures and material
physical properties and charcateristics, etc. thereafter I can perform magic to
my system. This is more critical for solid state amp than with valves. In your
set up, AB-1 without the spikes sound more right.
Like I have said before, if it sounds great without the spikes, then it must be
right! Calling it a flut if you must, and it does happen often in hifi, at the
given set up in your system, no spikes sounded right. Live with it for a while
and see whether you heart asked for anything more than what you now have. May be
next time it would be different again. As I also wanted my AB-1 to go deeper and
with more weight. Without the spikes, you loose these two.
Congratulations,
Jo
----- Original Message -----
From: David Fagan
To: - Yahoo! LS3/5a mailing list
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 3:38 AM
Subject: [ls35a] AB/1s revisited...
Jo,
Something interesting...
Last week I felt I had been listening to my Spendor BC1s for long enough and
needed to get back to some serious LS3/5a listening.
So out went the BC1s and in came the Harbeth LS3/5as on Tallis stands. I
also brought in my Rogers AB/1s. In haste (and to aid setting up) I just
stood the AB/1s WITHOUT spikes on their concrete plinths behind the
Harbeths.
I also wired everything up single-wired (again just to save time)...
...and surprise surprise the combination with AB/1s actually sounds good. I
played around with different combinations and have come to the conclusion
that the bottom spikes are the major cause of my bad bass problems. With
the spikes there is certainly bass but it has no texture or definition.
Without the spikes, using a bit of Blutak to "bond" the AB/1s to the
concrete plinth (about 4" high), the bass sounds good - not quite BC1 depth,
definition or texture - but a total revelation.
This is the opposite of what I expected. Although I have never been happy
with the bottom spikes - I have never been able to fasten them to be
absolutely rigid (even with locking nuts).
So I'm thinking of unscrewing the wooden AB/1 plinth and seeing if I can get
a solid stone (nicely polished) 4" base that can be screwed to the bottom of
the AB/1s.
Any idea if this will work? Any idea why the bass is so much better without
the spikes? By the way it's still not "perfect" but it now transforms the
Harbeths
Dave.
[/i]
From: KI ARCHITECT <kiarch@t...>
Date: Mon Jun 7, 2004 8:20 am
Subject: Re: [ls35a] AB/1s revisited...
Hi Dave,
The reason why AB-1 without the spikes seems to work better in your system is
because the frequency from AB-1 is slightly diffused. When I was searching for
the right position of AB-1, I removed the spikes for ease of shifting about, but
my wooden parquet flooring was not the best workmanship that you can expect, its
not well levelled. So, you could be right. The fact that you have got it to
sound good to you is more important than anything else! Congratulation Dave.
IMHO, the fact that you mentioned "With the spikes there is certainly bass but
it has no texture or definition" is due to the sound from AB-1, even with 6"
apart, has overlaid into the frequency of LS3/5a coupled with its sound energy
is too 'powerful' that has overpowered the LS3/5a. Hence you have more bass but
lacking in texture and definition. Why? Because texture and definition of bass
comes from LS3/5a and not AB-1.
There are many issues need to look at in matching AB-1 to LS3/5a, one is a
frequency bandwidth crossovers between AB-1 and LS3/5a, next is their 'energy'
level matching. Frequency crossover is commonly said and it is well understood.
Energy matching is less been mentioned and some said sound characteristics
differences, which is again another thing all together. So is Timing. But energy
in sound means "strenght", they may sound similar in characters and at the same
timing but they can be huge in difference in their strenght.
It is particularly critical to get the equipment to sound right before judging
the sound from AB-1. Laurie mentioned "vibration control", I am into that for a
long time and I applied forces transfer in building structures and material
physical properties and charcateristics, etc. thereafter I can perform magic to
my system. This is more critical for solid state amp than with valves. In your
set up, AB-1 without the spikes sound more right.
Like I have said before, if it sounds great without the spikes, then it must be
right! Calling it a flut if you must, and it does happen often in hifi, at the
given set up in your system, no spikes sounded right. Live with it for a while
and see whether you heart asked for anything more than what you now have. May be
next time it would be different again. As I also wanted my AB-1 to go deeper and
with more weight. Without the spikes, you loose these two.
Congratulations,
Jo
----- Original Message -----
From: David Fagan
To: - Yahoo! LS3/5a mailing list
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 3:38 AM
Subject: [ls35a] AB/1s revisited...
Jo,
Something interesting...
Last week I felt I had been listening to my Spendor BC1s for long enough and
needed to get back to some serious LS3/5a listening.
So out went the BC1s and in came the Harbeth LS3/5as on Tallis stands. I
also brought in my Rogers AB/1s. In haste (and to aid setting up) I just
stood the AB/1s WITHOUT spikes on their concrete plinths behind the
Harbeths.
I also wired everything up single-wired (again just to save time)...
...and surprise surprise the combination with AB/1s actually sounds good. I
played around with different combinations and have come to the conclusion
that the bottom spikes are the major cause of my bad bass problems. With
the spikes there is certainly bass but it has no texture or definition.
Without the spikes, using a bit of Blutak to "bond" the AB/1s to the
concrete plinth (about 4" high), the bass sounds good - not quite BC1 depth,
definition or texture - but a total revelation.
This is the opposite of what I expected. Although I have never been happy
with the bottom spikes - I have never been able to fasten them to be
absolutely rigid (even with locking nuts).
So I'm thinking of unscrewing the wooden AB/1 plinth and seeing if I can get
a solid stone (nicely polished) 4" base that can be screwed to the bottom of
the AB/1s.
Any idea if this will work? Any idea why the bass is so much better without
the spikes? By the way it's still not "perfect" but it now transforms the
Harbeths
Dave.
[/i]