Electrostatic Speakers

[Bogart]

My First "Hi-end" Speaker was a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i. Architectural Audio also brought in a pair of Quad ESL-2905 for a client/friend.

[Pause]

Just bought a pair of Martinlogan this month. First heard of music played through a pair of Martinlogan from Upscale Audio way back in 1992. It was an Aerius. Imaging and clarity are just incredible.

where did you buy them? Btw Quad esl-63 for sale in LIS. I heard 'em, very very nice. Bass is slightly lean but very tuneful like a close ported design. Midrange reminded me of the c1. Very un-boxy all right.

[mullard88]

Hi stereophile,

My first electrostatic was a pair of Acoustat 2+2 way back in the 1980s. They were big and not easy to drive. I remember the best amp I had to drive them was the hybrid Counterpoint amp. Unfortunately, the Counterpoint was good for only one night of duty. It blew up the next day. What a waste. It was one of my favorite sounds and if I had not seen this thread, I would not be reminiscing about it now. The midrange was very rich, the soundstage was immense and it was one of my earlier experiences of transparency. I recall Senor Sensible telling us that the background details of food being served in "Jazz at the Pawnshop" was making him feel hunger. After the Counterpoint amp, I tried the FM Acoustic 300 amp and the Spectral DMA 50 amp. Sadly, they did not match as well as the Counterpoint. In the end, Senor Sensible sold the Acoustat 2+2 for me.

My second pair was the Martin Logan Sequel. This was beautiful to look at but the bass was problematic. I had to buy bass traps to control the bass. I recall that the bass was more of a one-note bass nature. It was also transparent but did not possess the richness of the Acoustat midrange. Other than that, I don't remember much.

Currently, I have a pair of Stax F81 and a pair of Crosby modified Quad 63.

As long as one is willing to listen to low volume levels, such as the volume level for background music while carrying on a conversation, the Stax F81 may be the most transparent and richest speaker. The sweet spot is so wide it is almost non-existent. It can energize a room to the point that there is a semblence of soundstaging even if one is not between the two speakers. This is an extemely difficult speaker to drive, every time I raise the volume level up, even to normal conversation levels, it starts to distort.

The Quad 63 plays louder than the Stax before shutting down. But when listening to the Quads, one has to keep one's head between the two speakers. Once your head is not in the center, you lose the soundstage. My favorite amp for the Quad is the Lamm M1.1 monoblock. The Lamm will coax JBL-like slam out of the Quad. I had a thrill "rocking out" the Quads. I believe I overdid it as I blew the electrostatic panels on my pair.

[stereophile]

Hi mullard 88-

Thank you for sharing your experience with electrostats. I'm sorry to hear about the counterpoint amp. I have heard a pair of HUGE Accustats driven by a 300wpc Classe SS amp in a friend's house. Lovely midrange. The size of the speakers alone is imposing requiring a big room and a big amp to drive it. Still, once you have the right amp, the transparency of electrostats is special.

There was a time I considered unloading my Aerius i's. It was my wife who stopped me. They are her favorite speakers. She has heard other speakers both in my house, the systems of friends, and even in the hi-fi shows. She always prefers my Aerius i's. I trust her hearing. It has been said that women have more acute hearing than we do. I believe that, based on my listening sessions with her. It may take a few recordings for me to discern what she noticed in an instance.

I drive them with ARC VTM 110 monos(4pcs 6550/mono) at 110wpc or a Sonographe SA-400 200wpc SS amp. Between the two, the ARCs transform the sonics of the Aerius i's into my slice of audio heaven wrapping you in a warm embrace. Just ask friend's who have heard them in my room. Most of my visitors who have heard electrostats that more often than not, they are driven by an all SS or hybrid combo. It's the ARC/Aerius i combo w/c my wife prefers.

Speaking of your Quad ESL 63's, it about time I get back to work on restoring my pair of 63's. I just have to find the time one of these days.

[9.10.11]

Just bought a pair of Martinlogan this month. First heard of music played through a pair of Martinlogan from Upscale Audio way back in 1992. It was an Aerius. Imaging and clarity are just incredible.

Congratulations on your electrostats. I fell in love with the sound of a pre-owned pair of ML Aerius i's back in 2001 that I had to buy them. They are still with me and I am still enjoying them immensely. Just make sure to fire them up ever so often & to keep them covered when not in use. Once or twice a year, I use a compressor to 'blow away' dust w/c accumulates in the stators. Take care of them this way & they will never lose their sparkle.

Thanks stereophile. Will surely do periodic cleaning of the electrostat panels. It came with a cover also, so I put the cover on when not in use.

To Pause, got my Martinlogan from Ivan of Norman Audio Singapore.

Currently I'm using only a 12-watt tube amp to drive my electrostats speakers. Fortunately, it plays loud and clean to my liking.

[stereophile]

Currently I'm using only a 12-watt tube amp to drive my electrostats speakers. Fortunately, it plays loud and clean to my liking.

12 wpc only?! That is surprising. What are the specs of your ML's? Most of ML's electrostats require a lot of power for their speakers to bloom. My Aerius I's are 4 ohms 87db w/c sometimes dips to 2 ohms! As you can see, they are power hungry.

[9.10.11]

Yes only 12 wpc. I just hope it will not end up like mullard88's Counterpoint amp.

From its manual, the Martinlogan Source are rated at 90dB sensitivity with nominal impedance of 5 ohms and a minimum of 1.6 ohms at 20kHz.

Tube amp is an integrated Cayin MT12. Have used this combo for 10 days now at 2 to 4 hours of play time per day. At first I was afraid that the amp may not be able to drive the ML, but I just have to try. The same 12-watt amp had driven the Vandersteen 1B before and also the KEF Q1, and both speakers are also rated at 90dB and 91dB sensitivity respectively. Fortunately, these combinations had also played loud without clipping.

[AUDIREOPHILE]

Hi,
I'm a newby to this forum, but I had Acoustat Spectra 11s for 20 years until a couple of months ago. First of all, this is truly a great speaker if you get rid of the horrible woofers. The 1100 had an upgraded woofer and several audio sites have recommended different replacements. From my member name, you should surmise that I like Audire electronics, which I used with my Acoustats with truly outstanding results. I also used them with a Phase Linear 400 (so so), a Sumo Polaris (weak bass, veiled highs), and a couple of surround sound receivers just for fun (and for tone controls; also, so so). I hope this post will help you realize the full potential of this very fine speaker.
I have tried different woofs for the entire time I owned these speakers and also experimented with placement in different types of rooms. A large room with a high ceiling works great, but I also had great sound with a heavily carpeted basement. My current room(s) consists of a 12 x 14 dining area that is open to my living room and kitchen, which are a combined 30 x 20. The ceiling is 9 feet on the sides of the larger area, and due to the slope of the ceiling 12feet in the dining area. The center is 14 feet high. Behind the speakers (Now B&Ws) are windows that go from 14' in the center and 12' on the sides. The lower windows open, the blinds adjust, and the one side of the blinds is a soft texture. These are my only tone controls, other than a preamp for the subs. I mention this, because these speakers are almost wasted in a confined area. Before I had this room I did not use subwoofers, but on bass heavy music, the point source cones lose their volume as you move away from the line source electrostatics. Why did I sell the Acoustats instead of the B&Ws? I have rare B&Ws that no one appreciates and they did not bring enough money to please me on ebay. Plus the WF factor and a lost bet! (Ugly six foot tall speakers in a dining room with 50 y/o furniture! And... we can now see out the windows!) The B&Ws look cool and don't take up much room. They also sound very good, like the Acoustats, but brighter.
Now the woofers: A few years ago, I totally lucked into some Peerless sourced, NHT 8" woofers from their ST-4. In the NHT cabinet the woofs are facing the outsides of tower cabinets and are ported. I tried ports, but greatly preferred the acoustic suspension characteristics. Either a 100 watt or a 125 watt Audire amp drove the Acoustat/Peerless system perfectly. Audire amps have exceptionally high damping factors, and I do believe this helps, but even on a Sony surround receiver, there is a huge improvement. Due to the large, open room, I added the subs from my B&Ws for reggae and blues, etc. as well as pumping up the bass from old recordings such as Maynard Ferguson, Jethro Tull, and other music recorded before subs existed. My subs match exceptionally well since I use a pair of NHT SW2Si (Peerless 10" sandwich cone) drivers in the 16 inch cubed cabinets and a Thiel crossover. Don't get the boomy SW2 or SW2Pi (box is the same as Si). It has the same faults as the original Spectra woofs. How good are the Spectras without subs? Even in my big room, Dark Side of the Moon will blow you away. These speakers will play loud if you replace the woofers! The 10"subs are only for weak bass recordings, old or bad recordings, or parties. Don't go crazy with a high excursion or very efficient woofer; the 11 crossover seems to like a relatively inefficient driver and you don't want to overpower the beautiful electrostatic sound. GOOD LUCK!

[stereophile]

Hi. Welcome to WS & thank you for sharing your experience on electrostats. I have heard a friend's Acustats. They are HUGE! Still that lovely imaging w/c only an electrostat can convey was there.

Do post pics of your system in the member's set-up. Looking forward to seeing you participate more in the forums.

[georgepogi69]

hi guys!

NEED HELP!!!!

konting kwento lang....i just got last night a pair of Martin Logan Sequel speakers for FREE from a singaporean who posted his ad over at xtremeplace.com, a local buy & sell website for Audio and home theater systems...nobody was answering his ad so the "karungguni" and DIY wannabe part of me told me to answer the call of nature.....bottomline is that i have to pick it up ASAP and #2 the speakers has to be "reconed"....wow! a very nice & tempting offer....he called me up after 2 days and he was the one apologizing for not having called up earlier anyway we set the time for the pick-up....i rented a van and enlisted the help of my friend robert coz those speakers are darn heavy....


I dont know anything about electrostat speakers except the day i googled it....got some feedbacks also from elvin/knoxv that these speakers are very choosy when it comes to the amplifiers that are going to drive it.......

anyway, come pick up time, the owner has already removed one of the stat panel and he said that this is the thing that has to be reconed....oooppppsss, i was thinking that the one to be reconed was the 10' woofer part.... ...now after seeing the panel, i said to myself "this is going to be a little bit interesting".....buti na lang meron WS and internet to ask for help....

this morning, i signed as a member of the Martin Logan forum and found some pretty interesting topics on DIY-ing (pls take note of the dash baka kasi maging "dying" )

I opened up the panel very very carefully and this is what i found, 2 holes on the mylar film...


micro shots...

[georgepogi69]

continuation....

the stat panel ...


these ML speakers are going to be used ONLY for my HT system...coz these behemoths are way too big for my small audio room.......

my questions;

1.Can anybody recommend any amplifiers to drive this behemoths?.....
2.Does the 2 holes would affect the SQ of the speakers?

Thanks and hoping to hear all your friendly advice......

[accastil]

a minimum of 200W (SS) per channel to make them sing out their true potentials sir.

[JackD201]

Ideally you want an SS amp that will approximately double in power down to 2ohms or are rated for 1 to 2 ohms stable operation. Sadly even many of the known muscle amps are now rated to operate safely at only 4 ohms.

For tube amp look for tube amps that have 2 ohm taps to be on the safe side.

As for the holes, it looks like the mylar was burned from arcing. Yes the holes will affect the sound but more importantly the tension of the mylar is no longer constant. You have your work cut out for you bro! Kaya mo iyan for sure. It's going to be very challenging to work the curved surface though. Good luck but more importantly have fun!!!!

[georgepogi69]

Ideally you want an SS amp that will approximately double in power down to 2ohms or are rated for 1 to 2 ohms stable operation. Sadly even many of the known muscle amps are now rated to operate safely at only 4 ohms.

For tube amp look for tube amps that have 2 ohm taps to be on the safe side.

As for the holes, it looks like the mylar was burned from arcing. Yes the holes will affect the sound but more importantly the tension of the mylar is no longer constant. You have your work cut out for you bro! Kaya mo iyan for sure. It's going to be very challenging to work the curved surface though. Good luck but more importantly have fun!!!!

sensei Jack,

thanks for the advise.....for the meantime i was able to get a yamaha mx-630,medyo within my budget....the power amps that double down to 2ohms eh times 2 or 3 nung price nang yamaha....i'm planning to upgrade again mid of this year when everything is stable na with my new job......

btw, what are your thoughts on the Vincent SP 331 and Adcom GFA-555?

[JackD201]

I like Vincent gear. Great bang for the buck for sure. Ambience went to show with them in CES 08. Dimfer, Bon D and myself were very impressed.

As you know I'm very comfortable with hybrid designs that are well implemented. Vincent is very well implemented. The value oriented hybrid power amps I like most however is the Moscode HR but it is almost 4 times the price. The Adcom 555s were never known to be suave but they do have the grunt.

[mullard88]

Hi georgepogi69,

I used a pair of Spectral DMA 50 stereo amps bridged to mono to drive my Martin Logan Sequels.

[edwin]

Hi georgepogi69,

I used a pair of Spectral DMA 50 stereo amps bridged to mono to drive my Martin Logan Sequels.

The Spectral are damn good amps .