PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - dv187736's PF C7 Preamp

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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - WIP - SNZ's AIKIDO PHONO

Postby alexg » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:09 pm

hypertriode wrote:
arnoldc wrote:Looking good!


thanks buddy! haven't really heard an aikido yet; i'm sure they'd sound good! ;)


Looks great Hyper!

I did a 6sl7/6sn7 aikido, and it is the one am always using (i have a foreplay inspired preamp, 12b4 and 7n7 preamps).

Anyway, what is the 9-pin socket for? ;)
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - WIP - SNZ's AIKIDO PHONO

Postby hypertriode » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:56 pm

alexg wrote:
hypertriode wrote:
arnoldc wrote:Looking good!


thanks buddy! haven't really heard an aikido yet; i'm sure they'd sound good! ;)


Looks great Hyper!

I did a 6sl7/6sn7 aikido, and it is the one am always using (i have a foreplay inspired preamp, 12b4 and 7n7 preamps).

Anyway, what is the 9-pin socket for? ;)


hi alex,

that's next in line for me - a 6SL7/6SN7 aikido. SNZ's (the one pictured) is a 6SN7/6SN7. the 9-pin socket is for a 12Dw7/7247 as we are using the Janus regulator circuit 8)
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - WIP - SNZ's AIKIDO PHONO

Postby Squirrelnutzipper » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:39 pm

hypertriode wrote:hi alex,
that's next in line for me - a 6SL7/6SN7 aikido. SNZ's (the one pictured) is a 6SN7/6SN7. the 9-pin socket is for a 12Dw7/7247 as we are using the Janus regulator circuit 8)


If the gain in the Aikido circuit is roughly half the mu of the input tube, the gain with 6SN7s would be roughly 10db, and with 6SL7s 33db, roughly, or three times the 6SN7s' gain. I understand that the needed preamp gain is system dependent, and is a function of the line signal level, speaker efficiency, amp gain and desired pressure level, but from experience, at least in my system and many others I have listened to, it seems that around 10db of gain would be more than sufficient, and in fact the volume control is rarely over half way up with deafening sound levels in medium sized rooms. I am wondering what type of setup, generally, would require or benefit from such higher gain.
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - WIP - SNZ's AIKIDO PHONO

Postby hypertriode » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:59 pm

Squirrelnutzipper wrote: I am wondering what type of setup, generally, would require or benefit from such higher gain.


kuya, don't forget i have several SET amps here (300B and 2A3, 45 coming up ;) ). the goobles of gain of the 6SL7/6SN7 set-up may be a boon, or maybe not :(
but if the 6SN7/6SN7 suffices, then so be it :)
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - WIP - SNZ's AIKIDO PHONO

Postby Squirrelnutzipper » Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:15 pm

hypertriode wrote:kuya, don't forget i have several SET amps here (300B and 2A3, 45 coming up ;) ). the goobles of gain of the 6SL7/6SN7 set-up may be a boon, or maybe not :(
but if the 6SN7/6SN7 suffices, then so be it :)

Got it. What I was just wondering is, if you are attenuating the input signal with the volume control, wouldn't it be ideal if when the volume control was all the way to full, no input signal attenuation, the sound was the highest you would want? In other words, whatever number of steps the attenuator had, from 23 to 127 and beyond, let's say, they would all be available to fine tune the volume. The other and undesirable extreme would be a few positions available; off, listenable and deafening!
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - WIP - SNZ's AIKIDO PHONO

Postby alexg » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:52 am

Thanks Rene, wow a regulated PSU, that should make a lot of difference on the sound.

Squirrelnutzipper wrote:
hypertriode wrote:hi alex,
that's next in line for me - a 6SL7/6SN7 aikido. SNZ's (the one pictured) is a 6SN7/6SN7. the 9-pin socket is for a 12Dw7/7247 as we are using the Janus regulator circuit 8)


If the gain in the Aikido circuit is roughly half the mu of the input tube, the gain with 6SN7s would be roughly 10db, and with 6SL7s 33db, roughly, or three times the 6SN7s' gain. I understand that the needed preamp gain is system dependent, and is a function of the line signal level, speaker efficiency, amp gain and desired pressure level, but from experience, at least in my system and many others I have listened to, it seems that around 10db of gain would be more than sufficient, and in fact the volume control is rarely over half way up with deafening sound levels in medium sized rooms. I am wondering what type of setup, generally, would require or benefit from such higher gain.


SNZ, I have a couple of amps that the input/driver is a bit short in driving the amp into full power (EL84 into 2A3,for example), my phonostage (12at7 into 12at7) also have lowish gain) the 12sl7/12sn7 aikido helps. I also liked the sound of the 12sl7/12sn7 aikido over the other combinations I have tried, 12au7/12au7, 6dj8/6dj8/6n1p, 7n7/6sn7,12sn7/12sn7 (yun lang yung tubes sa stash ko eh... :rofl:
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby hypertriode » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:06 pm

pigdog's NEUMANN SUT.

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pigdog's EMI SUT.

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albino's Cinemag SUT + turntable switcher.

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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby teamdriver » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:31 pm

albino's Cinemag SUT + turntable switcher.

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ser, ang ganda neto ah.. :) parang gusto ko pagawa un akin ng ganyan case. :) :)
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby Albino » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:59 pm

hypertriode wrote:
albino's Cinemag SUT + turntable switcher.

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Bro, ang ganda! Puntahan kita sa Saturday after lunch. Excited na ako. Thanks!
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - WIP - SNZ's AIKIDO PHONO

Postby Squirrelnutzipper » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:03 pm

alexg wrote:SNZ, I have a couple of amps that the input/driver is a bit short in driving the amp into full power (EL84 into 2A3,for example), my phonostage (12at7 into 12at7) also have lowish gain) the 12sl7/12sn7 aikido helps. I also liked the sound of the 12sl7/12sn7 aikido over the other combinations I have tried, 12au7/12au7, 6dj8/6dj8/6n1p, 7n7/6sn7,12sn7/12sn7 (yun lang yung tubes sa stash ko eh... :rofl:


Alexg,
Good observations. I know that the gain needed is dependent on multiple factors. My Aikido in service for some time has 6cg7 input and 5687 output. So, it has 10 db gain, which is at the moment more than enough. I was going to try 6gu7s for input to drop the gain a few dbs. The octal Aikido is for trying different tubes for different sound. I have 6sn7s, a pile of 6f8gs, 7n7s, 7af7s and 12sn7 and 6sl7s to roll around. The Aikido phono has a lot of gain with 12ax7s for input , so somewhere in the high 40s for gain. Will try some 5751s for lower gain later. It would yield somewhere in the low 30s. I was even thinking of using some 6C8gs in the octal linestage that have a mu of 36, so they sit somewhere roughly half way between the 6sn7 and 6sl7. I will be running two separate systems with the same sources, so all this gets a little interesting, if not complicated.

By the way, the Janus in Rene's build is a shunt regulator that should work well with the Aikido. Will use the same topology for the Aikido phono power supply. Glad to know that you like your Aikido. I have been really delighted with it, but would like to experiment more now. I guess that will happen soon enough!
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby vintage_dog » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:52 pm

the cinemag is looking just great ;-)

alvin, pahiram pag na test mo na...
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby hypertriode » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:22 pm

more pics - inside albino's turntable switcher/Cinemag SUT. big thanks to amandarae for his very helpful guide! 8)

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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby Albino » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:34 pm

vintage_dog wrote:the cinemag is looking just great ;-)

alvin, pahiram pag na test mo na...

No problem, I'll be able to test it over the weekend. I'll bring it on Monday.
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby pigdog » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:03 am

went by to rene's place immediately after getting off the airport , and listened to both the emi and the Neumann BV3 along with Oscar Imperio's 26DHT line stage, the emi was very nice, or so we thought, that is until we hooked up the Neumann's as it turns out this is a very refined sounding SUT, perhaps the nicest i have ever heard or owned and far outclassed the Altec green cans betwen the emi and the neumanns. we found the neumanns to have a crystal clear delivery as if a layer of haze was lifted! in my opinion this bizarre looking SUT can easily put the legendary WE618 SUTs to shame! think of spending years driving a Honda and changing to a high performance Ferrari! the question now is, is this the end of my search for Better SUTS? does this mean it is time ot dump the rest of my collection? ;) interestingly we tried out oscar's 26 dht and initially we had some issues with noise and microphonics but turns out to be more due to a pair of faulty and perhaps gassy tubes, fortunately i brought an extra a pair and not knowing what to expect, the preamp was singing beautifully. it has a distinctively open and very fluid sonic quality perhaps the best discription would be "malambing" and it is hooked up to a pair of antique soundlab 845 monoblocs a big credit goes to Oscar Imperio's design the preamp was built entirely by AMX
hypertriode wrote:pigdog's NEUMANN SUT.

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pigdog's EMI SUT.

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albino's Cinemag SUT + turntable switcher.

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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - Neumann, EMI & Cinemag SUT's

Postby hypertriode » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:23 pm

SNZ's Aikido pnono stage update - tube regulated power supply ready and raring to go!

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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - SNZ's Aikido PS update

Postby Squirrelnutzipper » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:23 am

Looking good! The off board heatsink for the filament supply regulator and bamboo side panels are really nice touches. Now the question is, how does it sound? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - SNZ's Aikido PS update

Postby Mamimili » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:27 am

Squirrelnutzipper wrote:Looking good! The off board heatsink for the filament supply regulator and bamboo side panels are really nice touches. Now the question is, how does it sound? Inquiring minds want to know!


I bet it sounds as good as it looks Dana!

So many choices, the very word "Manila" must be whispered in hushed & frightened tones in the branded audio manufacturing industry!
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - SNZ's Aikido PS update

Postby hypertriode » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:36 pm

SNZ's AIKIDO phono stage with outboard tube rectified and tube regulated power supply.

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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - SNZ's Aikido PS update

Postby pigdog » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:39 pm

bring it hk on sept and let me listen to it
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Re: PHONO STAGE, HEAD AMP & SUT'S - SNZ's Aikido PS update

Postby JoeyGS » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:18 am

Hi Rene,

Can we audition this?

Thanks and regards,
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