SUN AUDIO SV-2A3 SPECIAL EDITION (PICS)

goodies from the Master!

Moderator: hypertriode

Postby vintage_dog » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:24 pm

keith, from what i see, the hyper-modified unit already has some of the better/best components one can put into the sun circuit. i doubt very much if any "upgrade" in any passive components at this point will significantly/noticeably change the character of the sound. i could be wrong of course.

it's always a big temptation to look forward to upgrades (parts in this case), but i think, you need to also be clear on:
1. exactly what do you find lacking/not desirable in the current amp
2. what improvements are you hoping to get in your system

the above must be answered first before anyone can have a list of things on a wish list, do/replace.

my guess is the only way you can change the character of the amp (assuming the same tube complement, transformers, etc) is a change in the circuit altogether. the sun 2A3 circuit has some very good followings (stereophile mag likes them too :-; ), but there are other adventurous designs that may be better and address whatever gaps you "hear" in your current system (assuming all other componets are same).

but again, you have first to let us know, your answers to the 2 questions above.
User avatar
vintage_dog
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 7381
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:35 pm
Location: south of town

Postby JackD201 » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:43 pm

He loves his chrometops and RCAs and refuses to look for Cunnili......ehem....Cunninghams meaning tube rolling is out.

If I may guess it is in the realm of HF linearity hence MR. Kroy's temptation with V-caps.

Anyway, it appears I am the guinea pig...again :evil: :lol:
User avatar
JackD201
Immortal
 
Posts: 10024
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:10 am
Location: Bozania

Postby audiophileman2002 » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:12 pm

There is a big difference in using tantalum resistors and silver foil in oil caps in case the ones used are not what I assume they'd be. It will be very obvious in the separation of instruments, pinpoint accuracy in the location, blacker background, snap and punch - overall a much better resolution. Of course, it also goes without saying that these components are $$$. I had several opportunities to see it happen even in an SV2A3 that is owned by a friend of mine and in an Air Tight 300B amp. I myself had experimented with them and has done it in an AN P1SE (my back up amp) and A - B'd my own AN Silver Signature Meishu (my main amp) with a normal production Meishu. The Silver Signature uses all tantalum resistors, silver foil in oil caps, BG and of course silver wiring in the output transformers. The price difference (as published by AN USA) incidentally between the two amps is about $5,000.00. Unless you hear the difference, you'll never believe the difference is possible in the same circuitry.
I've heard that the V caps and Mundorfs are also excellent sounding caps but I personally have not had the opportunity to use them. They are also not cheap.
User avatar
audiophileman2002
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1543
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:11 am
Location: Clarksville, MD 21029

Postby audiophileman2002 » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:24 pm

vintage_dog wrote:it's always a big temptation to look forward to upgrades (parts in this case), but i think, you need to also be clear on:
1. exactly what do you find lacking/not desirable in the current amp
2. what improvements are you hoping to get in your system

the above must be answered first before anyone can have a list of things on a wish list, do/replace.


What vintage dog stated is absolutely true. One has to identify exactly what is the goal.
However, if one is not looking for a better resolution or improvement in some of the micro events then an upgrade in components may not be necessary.
User avatar
audiophileman2002
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1543
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:11 am
Location: Clarksville, MD 21029

Postby keith » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:18 pm

VD and AP,

Many thanks for replying and giving your thoughts on this. In all honesty, I am very happy with the Rivo-ed Sun. If one should ask if I can live with it? I'd wholehaeartedly have to say yes. But heck, if someone were to ask me if I could live with my old Marantz receiver and a "Vigilance" (VR-2), I'd likewise say yes. Equipment these days are really no slouches. Today's budget systems can please many a golden ear. (Then again, many a golden ear could complain too.)

Back to the Rivo-ed Sun ... I'm looking at adding a touch more resolution to it. Maybe the Vcaps can achieve this. So come on Immortal JackD, please be my guinea ;-) Some may ask, why fix it if it ain't broke? Tis the disease of the audio-fool. It's that microscopic improvement in sound that you go for. And it's only a matter of time until that insatiable itch returns and needs to be scratched.

Master Rene has suggested upgrading to the tantalum resistors. The upgrade shouldn't cost too much so I'm looking to check out this route as well. If I don't like it, than it's off to Rene to return it to the way it was. :lol:


marty,
Immoral? Hindi naman, bud. Bait ko nga, eh. ;-)
User avatar
keith
walastick
 
Posts: 2463
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: BGC

Postby raffy » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:31 pm

Congrats bud your set dream has finally come into fuition, might I be lucky someday to hear your super set up!

raf
raffy
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:30 pm

Postby vintage_dog » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:35 pm

modifying the Sun 2A3 amp? this shot was taken at WS Tubes 101 session with the Prof JM dissecting the Sun 2a3 circuit..

Image

and the guys who listened to the Prof then (serioso lahat ah) :lol: ...

Image

unfortunately, no one took notes :lol:
is that KD natutulog? :D
Last edited by vintage_dog on Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
vintage_dog
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 7381
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:35 pm
Location: south of town

Postby keith » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:56 pm

raffy wrote:Congrats bud your set dream has finally come into fuition, might I be lucky someday to hear your super set up!

raf


Buddy,

But of course. But super? I don't think so. The system's still at Jack's. Just head on over there. ;-)
User avatar
keith
walastick
 
Posts: 2463
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: BGC

Postby JackD201 » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:55 pm

Super! Yes it is! :)
User avatar
JackD201
Immortal
 
Posts: 10024
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:10 am
Location: Bozania

Postby audiophileman2002 » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:07 pm

keith wrote:Master Rene has suggested upgrading to the tantalum resistors. The upgrade shouldn't cost too much so I'm looking to check out this route as well.


Good tantalum resistors could cost something like about $7 / pc. for 1 watt and about $10 / pc. for 2 watts. Plus of course silver solder and bench time. There should be a subtle improvement with tantalum resistors. It is up to you to decide if it is worth the added expense.

Seems you basically use CD as you mentioned the use of the LS16 line stage pre amp. If it is, try experimenting connecting you line source like a CD player directly to the SV 2A3 which I believe have input volume control. Then see which sound you like. The reason behind this is because the LS16 has feedback and by connecting directly you avoid this loop. I used to have an LS25 II before and would like to see how your observations are if you use a similar line stage with an SET. Cheers.
User avatar
audiophileman2002
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1543
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:11 am
Location: Clarksville, MD 21029

Re: SUN AUDIO SV-2A3 SPECIAL EDITION (PICS)

Postby drlowmu » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:28 am

Hello,

Looking at the Sun SV-2A3 schematic, and Hypertriode's neat execution, causes me to ask a question - and make a few comments.

The main question I ask, and most perplexing to me, is why pay attention, time, and money to such a uninspired and mediocre SE design of a 2A3 amp??

There are a huge number of mistakes to SUN's basic design, modifying it seems fruitless. It will never perform as it should, if it had a better overall SE design.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I will offer three changes, that will improve hypertriode's execution, and these three apply to any quality SE amplifier. All three improve the SUN SV-2A3, and all three are at essentially ZERO cost.

1) NEVER EVER bundle wires in a SE amplifier, as proudly displayed, in the first photo !!!

It is the kiss of death. Looks neat, sounds worse...always !!! Oh my goodness.

In SE amps, all wires need to float in mid air, and not touch each other, be three-dimensionally positioned. All wires have fields, and to maintain the signal's purity, and best dynamic expression through the SET, the wires need to be separated. IF and when they cross each other, do so at RIGHT ANGLES to each other, so there is as little impact upon the two wires as possible.

2) Never EVER put an RCA input jack on the rear of a SET, and run signal wiring lengthwise all the way across the chassis to the front - end tubes !!!!!


Why? The signal level is the smallest signal level in the entire amp, and so, it is subject to degradation, due to longer-than-needed wire lengths, and any and all fields, acting upon that long wire, that are internal to the amp. Common sense. SUN has needlessly , without forethought, degraded the signal before it even GETS to the Input tube for amplification.

In the SUN amp, the RCA jacks should be re-positioned top-deck, right in front of each 6SN7 Input tube, such that there is LESS than two inches of under-deck wire length, between the RCA jack and the grid of the Input tube. In SETs, this critical short length of input signal wire sounds best ( to me ) when it is 2 paralleled runs of 18 AWG silver, high quality silver, or a close equivalent.

3) Along the same vein of thinking, any Pot on the input of an amplifier, if not needed, should be instantly eliminated and replaced with a HIGH QUALITY ( not a carbon comp ) resistor. A fixed-value, high-quality resistor, RCA jack..... hot to ground.


The input Pot on ANY amp is a HUGE signal degrade, again, at the lowest level of signal in the amp. Additionally, the pot has a diode-like wiper arm to winding mechanical interface, and a pot uses less-than-optimal resistive materials.

IF your audio system is thought out, and you have some means of attenuation prior to the amps, ( a preamp, or in my case, a quality system-attenuator ) NEVER using the Pot on the ( SUN SV-2A3 ) or any amp's input ...... is a easy-to-understand design choice.

Imagine using a Pot on the input, versus a really good sounding single resistor, perhaps something like a 1/2 Watt PRP, or a Roedersein Resista MK3, or a Caddock TF020. No contest there ......at all.

We need to put much more thinking into any SE executions. Have fun building. I sure do .

drlowmu
drlowmu
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:28 am

Previous

Return to >> HYPER AUDIO <<

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron