Updated Rules on Buying & Selling of Softwares 3-3-08

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Updated Rules on Buying & Selling of Softwares 3-3-08

Postby stereophile » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:42 am

Revised Buy & Sell Guidelines for Software (Vinyl & CD) 3-3-08

1. ONLY MEMBERS WITH MINIMUM 50 POSTS MAY SELL ITEMS.
Failure to read/comply will mean immediate deletion and/or locking of the thread by the moderator.

1.A. MEMBERS CAN POST ONLY 5 ALBUM TITLES AT A TIME.
1.B. THOSE WHO WISH TO POST MORE THAN 5 ALBUMS NEED TO GIVE A THREAD MAINTENANCE CONTRIBUTION OF WHICH YOU WILL BEEN GIVEN A STICKY STATUS FOR ONE YEAR.


2. The SELLER is in charge of maintaining his/her thread.
- Subject Title should contain SELLER's NAME followed by FS: _____ (Ex. Stereophile FS:________)
- Combine into ONE thread LPs & CDs for sale
- LPs for sale must be posted above CDs for sale.
- Once RESERVED, the item must be segregated from those still for sale.
- SOLD items must likewise be segregated and will be retained till the return period lapses. It must be DELETED after this time.

3. LPs & CDs for sale must have a PRICE.

4. LPs must be VISUAL GRADED.
- Format in posting grade of record is COVER/VINYL.
- State if MONO or STEREO. If ELECTRONICALLY RE-CHANELLED FOR STEREO, please state.
- Play grading no longer required.
- No G grade records(cover/vinyl) will be allowed to be sold.


Vinyl Visual Grading (based on Goldmine Standard):

Mint

Perfect. A mint record should appear to have just left the manufacturer without any handling; that is, it should appear perfect! No scuffs or scratches, blotches or stains, labels or writing, tears or splits; nothing. Perfect. And age has nothing to do with it; the same standards for mint apply to a 78 from 1954 as to a major label’s latest release! There are no sliding values for mint. The single biggest complaint by collectors relating to grading over the years has been the deteriorating standards of sellers’ grading. It is only natural for almost everyone to turn immediately to the mint (read "highest") price in a price guide. If a record is mint-minus, take the assigned mint value and work your way down!

A mint album cover should appear to have never had a record in it: no ring-wear, dog eared corners, writing, seam-splits, or even circular impressions, especially on single picture sleeves. A mint sleeve should essentially appear as though a record were never placed between its front and back covers! No slight seam splits, no turned down tops or dog-eared corners, no prices or dates stamped or written anywhere, including inside the sleeve. And, most importantly, no ring-wear! Any of these all-too-common signs of age would reduce the sleeve to VG+!

I will define ring-wear as any imprint in the sleeve from the record that it formerly held. Any imprint. To many dealers and collectors the ink has to be worn off of the picture for them to recognize ring-wear and grade a sleeve down. I have been handed sleeves where each of the four corners were virtually bent back from the pressure of the disc inside but there is no ink rubbed off so the dealer/collector claims the sleeve is mint and asks an appropriately high price. Uh-uh. Mint means perfect and nothing else.

Near Mint

A record that is otherwise mint but has one or two tiny, inconsequential flaws that do not affect the play or the appearance is "NM" (M-) and should command 90-95 percent of the mint price. For many, near mint and mint-minus mean the same thing; for the sake of this article, they remain interchangeable. When dealing with a seller who discriminates between the two grades, you should inquire as to what the dealer means when one record is referred to as "M-" and another :NM". Many dealers and collectors take the position that any used (opened) record cannot be verified as mint so they use NM 9or M-) to describe what appears to be a perfect record that has been opened.

A sleeve for a single may have a slight impression from the record having been in it (no ring-wear; ring-wear should always be listed as a defect with the appropriate notation). An otherwise mint sleeve or cover with a price stamped on it is acceptable to many collectors; writing of any sort is not.

Similarly, LP and EP covers should still be close to perfect with minor signs of wear or age just becoming evident; slight ring-wear; minor denting to a corner; writing on the cover should all be noted properly.

Very Good Plus

Sometimes referred to as "Excellent." A record that has been handled and played either infrequently or very carefully. That is, an item obviously not perfect, but not too far from it. On a disc, this could mean that there are light paper scuffs from sliding in and out of a dust jacket; the vinyl may have lost some – not all – of its original lustre. A light scratch that did not affect the play in an otherwise nearly mint disc would all be acceptably VG + for most collectors; a scratch of any sort that audibly clicked throughout at a level greater than or equal to the music would not be acceptable. Always list the flaws in a VG + record or cover. As a rule of thumb, a VG+ item is worth 50 percent, or one-half, of the near mint value.

On covers and sleeves, some wear from storage is acceptable, especially light wear that does not affect the beauty of the artwork. Again, listing the flaws when selling is safest.

Very Good

Used but not abused. A very good record will display visible signs of handling and playing, such as loss of vinyl lustre, surface , groove wear, spindle trails from countless spins on the turntable. When played, surface noise will be evident, although it should not prevent the listener from enjoying the audio aspect of the disc. In other words, a VG record should appear to have been well-played although well-loved by a responsible owner. Gouges, rips in the label, cracks, maple syrups in the grooves are all unacceptable.

As more and more collectors spend more and more money, the lower limits of acceptability for an item to be admitted into their collection rises. That is, to many collectors, a record in "VG" condition is not acceptable unless the item is truly rare and virtually unavailable in any other condition! And then, only if the price is scaled appropriately to match the condition. A "VG" record should command approximately 20-30 percent of the near mint price.

This is a difficult grade when discussing paper goods; usually a cover, like a disc, is VG when a variety of problems are evident. Ring-wear, seam splits, bent corners, loss of gloss on the photo, stains, etc. An aggravated combination of two of these problems – never all of them – would likely cause a sleeve to be graded VG.

Good

Good in record collecting parlance all too often means a beat, thrashed, take-it-to-the-flea-market frisbee. This should not be (obviously). Good should mean that the record is well-played with any number of defects that collectors normally shy away from, such as name labels stuck on the label, almost complete loss of surface sheen, aggravating surface noise, etc. Still, the purchaser, knowing full well that he or she is buying a "G" record, should be able to take it home, slap it onto the turntable and have a good time listening to it. Records that do not provide this most fundamental requirement are just no good. A "G" record should command 10-20 percent of the near mint price.

A good cover has seen considerable handling over a course of years and displays the obvious physical signs: ring-wear on the front and back ; some seam splitting, particularly along the bottom and/or the left side, which would receive the brunt of the record’s sliding in and out; corners may be dog-eared to a light degree; an infatuated owner may have written his or her name somewhere; etc. Good should never mean bad. If a record or cover is beneath your contempt, it is not in "G" condition; look below for the appropriate guide.

5. RESERVATION priority is by POST. You must post the word RESERVE. THIS IS IMPORTANT. PLEASE TAKE NOTE. If you do not post the word RESERVE and another posts after you with the word RESERVE, the poster of RESERVE has priority.There are no substitute words for RESERVE. No reservation by call or sms will be entertained. Likewise, no SOFT RESERVATION will be entertained.

6. Reservation Time: not to exceed 7 calendar days from posting reservation.
If buyer does not complete the sale within 7days, the seller is free to offer reserved item for sale again.

7. Return Policy: w/in 7 calendar days of receipt of LP.
Upon receipt of the record, you have 7 days to try it out in your system and return it to seller if there are problems. A FULL REFUND IS MANDATORY.

8. Grounds for Return:
1. Record is warped/damaged.
2. Record is noisy w/ crackles, rendering it unlistenable
3. Gouges/ deep cuts present
4. Record is not what is posted.

NOTE: THERE IS NO RETURN/REFUND FOR SEALED LPs. The SELLER has no idea of the actual condition of the record, till it is opened by the buyer. The BUYER takes a chance that there are no defects and accepts the record regardless of condition.


9. Feedback Rating
We encourage you to post in the feedback column your feedback on the Buyer & Seller. This will be helpful to others when making purchases in the future.

10. Failure to comply with rules 2, 3, 4 & 5 will result in the moderators posting a warning. Failure to heed the warning will result in your thread being LOCKED.

Last edited by stereophile on Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:35 pm, edited 24 times in total.
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Postby stereophile » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:54 pm

I may have missed out on some items. To those who attended, pls inform me by posting. Ty.
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Postby pican » Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:23 pm

Many thanks to the members who worked out the new selling rules. It's fair and there
shouldn't be any difficulties implementing them. Does it require any fine tuning at this point?
Perhaps not. But, we are flexible and we can make adjustments as we go along.

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Postby 99khan » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:20 am

Thank you Doc Lito, Val, Philip, Raffy, Jerry, and the countless many others who were present and participated in the discussion. I appreciate that a "newbie" like myself can sit in and/or particpate in such "meeting of the minds".

Salamat sa inyong lahat. I salute your commitment and zeal in making WS more user-friendly.
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Postby pican » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:06 am

stereophile wrote:I may have missed out on some items. To those who attended, pls inform me by posting. Ty.


Doc,

May I recommend that sold items be not immediately deleted from the thread because we may need to go back to its published specification in case a contention arises within the 7 day period that the item can be returned.
Let's just segregate sold items together with reserved items and delete them after the 7 day return period has lapsed.

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Postby stereophile » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:14 am

pican wrote:
stereophile wrote:I may have missed out on some items. To those who attended, pls inform me by posting. Ty.


Doc,

May I recommend that sold items be not immediately deleted from the thread because we may need to go back to its published specification in case a contention arises within the 7 day period that the item can be returned.
Let's just segregate sold items together with reserved items and delete them after the 7 day return period has lapsed.

Pic


OK. Will ammend that sold items be retained for 7 days till return period lapses.

I also added a footnote regarding SEALED LPs. There will be NO RETURN OR REFUND should there be any porblems with the vinyl once opened. The SELLER has no idea of vinyl condition till opened. The BUYER takes a chance on the SEALED LP and accepts the vinyl regardless of condition. SELLERS & BUYERS, please take note of this.
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Postby Superman » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:22 am

stereophile wrote:
pican wrote:
stereophile wrote:I may have missed out on some items. To those who attended, pls inform me by posting. Ty.


Doc,

May I recommend that sold items be not immediately deleted from the thread because we may need to go back to its published specification in case a contention arises within the 7 day period that the item can be returned.
Let's just segregate sold items together with reserved items and delete them after the 7 day return period has lapsed.

Pic


OK. Will ammend that sold items be retained for 7 days till return period lapses.

I also added a footnote regarding SEALED LPs. There will be NO RETURN OR REFUND should there be any porblems with the vinyl once opened. The SELLER has no idea of vinyl condition till opened. The BUYER takes a chance on the SEALED LP and accepts the vinyl regardless of condition. SELLERS & BUYERS, please take note of this.


Noted, doc. Thanks!

For those who are not based in Manila (like me), as I have mentioned to Doc Orca, so that LP reservations will not "lapse" (we're only given 7-days to settle payment), an option is to settle payment via bank deposit/transfer...In my case, I only get to inspect the LPs i reserved/bought once I am in Manila (once a month)...

Thanks again! :D
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Postby pican » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:43 am

Thanks, Doc!

Additionally, I would like to point out that sellers should refrain publishing their own policies/conditions as conflict may arise with official rules. There is only one grading rule which we will follow and we sellers should not publish our own grading rules. We should not also publish our own reservation rule as there is already one in effect.

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Last edited by pican on Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jadis » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:44 am

Thanks, Doc for posting all the rules in a clear manner.

And thanks to everyone who helped out in making this section a good part of the entire wiredstate forum.
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Postby kabubi » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:55 am

Ka Lito,

re Rule #5, may i suggest that a member who wishes to reserve a particular item should "state/write explicitly" that he/she is reserving the item, as in "Please Reserve..."

salamat!


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Postby Superman » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:58 am

kabubi wrote:Ka Lito,

re Rule #5, may i suggest that a member who wishes to reserve a particular item should "state/write explicitly" that he/she is reserving the item, as in "Please Reserve..."

salamat!


k


May tama ka na naman, kapatid! :D
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Postby stereophile » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:00 am

kabubi wrote:Ka Lito,

re Rule #5, may i suggest that a member who wishes to reserve a particular item should "state/write explicitly" that he/she is reserving the item, as in "Please Reserve..."

salamat!


k


Done. The word RESERVE must appear on your post. If it doesn't and someone after you posts the word RESERVE, he has the priority. No unclear, joking about a so called 'reservation' will be entertained.

There are many ways to post reservation. This will lead to arguments and sorts. To end it all, you must post the word RESERVE. This means you want the item and are willing to pay for it subject to inspection.

The words: "For me", "akin", "mine" and the like are NOT ACCEPTABLE. Please take note. This will be enforced after this post of mine is submitted.
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Postby stereophile » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:19 am

Updated. Buyers & Sellers take note that the word "RESERVE" MUST BE POSTED to signify RESERVATION. If it does not appear, it is NOT a reservation.

This will be interesting...let's see who can type the word RESERVE + the item(s) fastest... :wink:
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Postby dante » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:48 am

I have been following the recent discussions on buy and sell rules on WS. Ang masasabi ko lang - ang titiindi ng mga buyers and sellers sa WS! Our lawyers will be put to shame by the amount of thought and the "what if" scenario building that we are doing on this thread! Tuloy, I am wondering if there were any lawyers in the recent buyers and sellers meeting, or "lawyerly" lang talaga tayong lahat?

Truly an impressive group, this one! :wink:
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Postby Mamimili » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:51 am

Passion wins the day :D
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Postby kabubi » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:39 am

Superman wrote:May tama ka na naman, kapatid! :D


lakas ng tama, kamo :D

galing talaga ni Stereophile. puede nang "Doctor of Law" :D
(translation for Mamimili: "Stereophile is really good. He can cure the law.")
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Postby johnlen » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:39 am

hi doc lito!

some sellers post the item for sale in this format:

beatles - abbey road: us/NM/VG+

leaves me to wonder if it is the vinyl which is NM or the cover.

more power!

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Postby Superman » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:44 am

johnlen wrote:hi doc lito!

some sellers post the item for sale in this format:

beatles - abbey road: us/NM/VG+

leaves me to wonder if it is the vinyl which is NM or the cover.

more power!

johnlen


Johnlen is right...may I suggest to post "standard" grading this way:

COVER/VINYL

therefore if grading is VG+/NM, it means cover is VG+, vinyl/LP is NM...Thanks! :D
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Postby merlin » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:45 am

johnlen wrote:hi doc lito!

some sellers post the item for sale in this format:

beatles - abbey road: us/NM/VG+

leaves me to wonder if it is the vinyl which is NM or the cover.

more power!

johnlen


normally, the order is cover/vinyl. good point, we can also agree on the order/sequence of grading :)
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Postby TheAnalogSource » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:48 am

if you check out the grading rules, NM grading includes already that of the cover so dapat walang VG+/NM. pag NM, NM all the way else regrade it as VG+
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