The Economics of Getting It Right

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The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby sumnerbrowne » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:57 pm

WS Friends,

Writing here to invite you to share your thoughts on the economics of according the audiophile vinyl treatment given to Aiza Seguerra's Open Arms to future OPM releases.

To start off,

1. How much would it cost to source the analog tapes containing the original recording?

2. How much would the mastering of the recording cost using DMM cutting or other top of the line cutting technology?

3. How much would the pressing on 180 gram audiophile vinyl cost?

4. How much for a glossy album art with gatefold cover, liner notes, plastic inner sleeves, etc?

5. How much for the licensing cost per song used, the PF of the artists and the recording company?

6. Once you obtain the total, how much would it come out per album to ensure

a. Expenses are recovered.

b. A decent profit is realized.

7. When will Wired State lead an end to end audiophile vinyl project where the source recording is analog just to lead by example and show it could be done?

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is really no existing vinyl OPM album produced in this century where the source recording is analog, right?

Capacities by UDD came from a digital recording.

Likewise with Ang Nawawala OST.


Looking forward to hearing from you.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby makinao » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:01 pm

"1. How much would it cost to source the analog tapes containing the original recording? "

That album was released in 2008, so it was most probably mixed and mastered in digital. AFAIK, mixing to 2-track analog tape was gone by the late-90s. And by the mid-2000s, very few albums were captured in multi-track analog tape.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby sumnerbrowne » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:36 pm

makinao wrote:"1. How much would it cost to source the analog tapes containing the original recording? "

That album was released in 2008, so it was most probably mixed and mastered in digital. AFAIK, mixing to 2-track analog tape was gone by the late-90s. And by the mid-2000s, very few albums were captured in multi-track analog tape.


Thanks, Makinao.

What is the best approach to such recordings then? Should they be converted to analog first before being used for the master? If yes, how much would it cost?

Thanks.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby JackD201 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:56 am

Rights vary wildly. To give you an idea, in 2001 we inquired about using a song from Frank Sinatra's estate to use one song in one of our films, They were asking $25,000 for sync rights for just a snippet of ONE song. We couldn't afford it. Tape to Hi-Rez (PCM or DSD) A to D transfers in a reputable house in the US go for about $5,000 an album. You're paying for the expertise and these houses need to pay for their overhead and their equipment. A80s, A820s, ATRs et al with flux heads and quality electronics (tape pres) do not come cheap. Neither do transparent ADCs like Emms and Grimms. I have no idea how much a DMM run would cost or the printing and art work. You'd have to ask the likes of ABC records. Dub cutters who do work for dance and hiphop on standard vinyl formulations and 150g with white labels run about 3 euro per 12". The problem with the resurgence is that of the long queue. Plants are struggling with the demand and lathes are hard to come by.

Will WS ever enter such an undertaking? Never say never but my guess is it won't happen.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby sumnerbrowne » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:00 pm

Many thanks, Jack. Wow, it really involves a lot of serious money. May I ask for your take on how you think S2S pulled it off in the case of Aiza Seguerra. Tried contacting them but so far, no luck. Thanks!
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby JackD201 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:56 pm

Wasn't the Aiza album in question Singaporean? When Keith and I were in SG two years ago at the MOD DAC show, we saw a lot of independent SG productions both on CD and Vinyl of non-SG artists. I guess they simply have the money to do all of it and a market with the money to support it. Like almost everything in SG, those CDs and LPs were expensive.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby sumnerbrowne » Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:06 pm

Yup, it is Singaporean and its marketing arm is Japanese. Thanks.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby sumnerbrowne » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:57 pm

Noticed the same thing with JD Souther's Natural History on vinyl. He doesn't sell as many records as the Eagles does yet he takes the vinyl versions of his albums very, very seriously.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby Mamimili » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:02 pm

What would it take to set up from scratch?
I saw what looked like Scully and Neumann lathes in one shop in Seoul last week, the place was closed and dark so i have no idea of cost or how many.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby JackD201 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:41 pm

I think the bigger problem is finding the technicians to set them up to the standards we're accustomed to.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby sumnerbrowne » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:30 am

Thanks, Mamimili and Jack for sharing.
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby Mamimili » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:15 am

JackD201 wrote:I think the bigger problem is finding the technicians to set them up to the standards we're accustomed to.


I have this image in my head of someone tinkering, and the tinkerer (sort of) looks like MandyM.
I am somewhat surprised that nobody in WS has turned a lathe into a regular TT, just for the fun of it :?:
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Re: The Economics of Getting It Right

Postby JackD201 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:27 pm

That's one handsome and debonair tinkerer! That would be cool though huh? A monster direct drive table!
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