Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

For Vinyl and Record lovers: turntables, cartridges, etc.

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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby kabubi » Tue May 27, 2014 7:50 pm

i've tried these record clamps, stabilizers, weights, etc and they offer very little or no significant advantage whatsoever. to me, they can only be effective if these thigamijigs can evenly lay out the record over the platter or mat. at least, that's what i think they are for originally --- to lay out the record as evenly as possible so that the cartridge can run as evenly as possible through the grooves and tracks. there are turntables like the Luxman PD300 that have suction mechanisms on the platter that lay the vinyl evenly thus negating any need for these clamps or stabilizers or what have you.

if you want a noticeable improvement in your vinyl playback, the "dampers"--- i prefer to call them that --- of Sensei Jon Agner and Herr Mandy Marino are the way to go. but please, they are not record clamps or weights. there is a science to it. in my not-so-intelligent mind, i think Jon's and Mandy's inventions tune in to certain frequencies and negate unwanted resonances to bring out more juice from the sound.

since the analysis i just gave you is more medieval than it is academic, i'm gonna refer you to this article by a certain Val Villanueva, a sort of enfant terrible of the audio scene, and one who belongs to a higher caste than mine as far as this hobby is concerned :

http://www.philstar.com/gadgets/2013/02 ... get-groove

Jon Agner gave me his kamagong damper as part of his "personal social responsibility" to the underprivileged in his audio circle. i also own one of Mandy's active record weight and i tell you, the moment i heard the magical difference, i reacted the way Helen Keller did when Anne Sullivan poured water on her hands.

i'd like to add that you are on the right track when you are thinking of changing the material of your platter. didn't Sensei Jon advise you that the choice of material is critical? King Endrik the Great from the Kingdom of Project 4 issued a royal decree that for his Royal Regas, nothing less than royal glass should be the platter.

i wish to pay forward all the good advice that Jon, Val and Mandy have given me by letting you in on a secret. before taking the big leap into Delrin or any funky mat or material, try this first:

Image

yup, it's a grinding wheel. but don't knock it till you've tried it. buy the 12 inch variant, put it on top of your platter then put your mat on top of the grinding wheel then you're ready to go. just make sure that the spindle is long enough to accommodate the wheel the mat and the record. if not, then you should find a way to lengthen that spindle.

if the results astound you, then you can call me "genius". if the results are forgettable you've got every right to beseech the Administrators to ban me from this site.


k
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby dnk » Tue May 27, 2014 7:57 pm

TheAnalogSource wrote:i think my good friend dnk despise it very much hehe


Haha, I am already over it. *wink*

Actually, I love record clamps/weights so much I have one in the car!

Image


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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby jon_p » Tue May 27, 2014 8:09 pm

Many thanks for all your responses. Seems like the clamp/weight opens more questions and complications :rofl:

I actually tried a michell clamp and based on my experience, i agree with all your comments...

1. Hit or miss(for the michell and vpi, its a miss)
2. More "air" without the clamp
3. Clamp also depends on that mat and platter
4. Clamp affects tone and speed of the music


Tia to all members...as i read through all the responses, what i can say for now..."definately learn something everyday"...this entails more research 8)
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Jervill » Wed May 28, 2014 12:02 am

Kabubi,

Thanks for the link! Never knew about that.

The Delrin won't be a mat, it will be a platter itself. Groovetracer, makes something similar for Rega. This platter is to address other things in a stacked platter Lenco PTP.

Thanks for the tip about the grinding pad. Interesting to try. My spindle extension has another 20mm after the L75 platter. With the second platter off the first, there's over 50mm of spindle to play with.
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Mamimili » Wed May 28, 2014 1:25 am

It is all so very subjective, but i feel the need to try a better damper than my heavy Thorens stabiliser.
Kabubs, that grinding wheel looks scary!

However, before jumping into damper world, what are all these various TT's sitting upon? Which comes first, the platform to conquer resonance or the damper?
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby kabubi » Wed May 28, 2014 7:39 am

@ Jervill
a simple grinder costs just 120 bukols. at that price, what have you gotta lose? please let me know how it turns out.

@ Mamimili
the grinder looks menacing specially with a cartridge stylus hanging above it. but as long as you have a mat that fully covers it, you have no problem. on my Empire TT, the layering is like this: from the bottom i have the platter. on top of that i place the grinding wheel. on top of the grinding wheel i placed one of Doc Lito's rubber donuts. on the very surface is the record. which is more important, the damper or the platform? i'd say the platform.

since the grinder wheel has a hole like a 45, it is important you place it spot on at the very center. once i got the grinder centered, i placed blue tac in the hole and around the spindle as a guide.
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Mamimili » Wed May 28, 2014 11:00 am

Do grinding wheels deserve their own thread?

kabubi wrote:Image

yup, it's a grinding wheel. but don't knock it till you've tried it. buy the 12 inch variant, put it on top of your platter then put your mat on top of the grinding wheel then you're ready to go. just make sure that the spindle is long enough to accommodate the wheel the mat and the record. if not, then you should find a way to lengthen that spindle.

if the results astound you, then you can call me "genius". if the results are forgettable you've got every right to beseech the Administrators to ban me from this site. k


OK, one grinding wheel shown, is this "The One" after trying different types of grinding wheel? Different grit size, different bond materials etc?
Were soft grade coarse grit rubber bonded wheels compared to hard grade fine grit resin bonded wheels? What about silicone or ceramic wheels?
What was the main reason for trying a grinding wheel in the first instance? Isolation and/or resonance control? Or is this question like asking why someone looked at an oyster and thought it looked good enough to eat?
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby BenC » Wed May 28, 2014 11:59 am

Hi Paul,

I did try the grinding wheel (GW) on my 401 before. Result was positive for me! :)

My setup was similar to Kaboobie's i.e., platter > grinding wheel > doc Lito's mat > LP. My only issue was the GW's diameter is a bit bigger than my 401's platter. The GW was riding on the raised outer lip of the platter. There's no way you'll be able to use a record clamp with the spindle barely protruding from the LP. Am trying to figure out how to reduce the diameter of the GW to fit flat on the platter.

One thing I noticed with the use of the GW was the reduced noise during playback. My guess is noise/vibrations picked up by the platter is absorbed or randomized (???) in the GW instead of transferred to the LP and eventually picked up by the stylus. This is just a guess. No way for me to prove it scientifically. As Kaboobs had said, it's cheap! ... Not much to lose but a lot to gain if it proves successful in your setup. ;)

I'll soon be revisiting this setup ...

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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Mamimili » Wed May 28, 2014 12:05 pm

Thanks Ben, as you and so many other respected spinners are being positive about grinding wheels, a trip to the local DIY store will be made this weekend!

Now, has anyone tried a brand other than Bosch :D
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby quarterback » Thu May 29, 2014 11:43 am

[quote="Mamimili"]Thanks Ben, as you and so many other respected spinners are being positive about grinding wheels, a trip to the local DIY store will be made this weekend!

Now, has anyone tried a brand other than Bosch :D[/quote

if you're using japanese made cart you can try "makita" for better synergy :)
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Mamimili » Thu May 29, 2014 6:50 pm

quarterback wrote:
Mamimili wrote:Thanks Ben, as you and so many other respected spinners are being positive about grinding wheels, a trip to the local DIY store will be made this weekend!

Now, has anyone tried a brand other than Bosch :D[/quote

if you're using japanese made cart you can try "makita" for better synergy :)


too expensive for me, so i gad better stay with a Bosch GW and my workhorse Clearaudio cartridge :D
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby buknoy » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:21 am

tried to use a plumb bob (hulog) :lol: . it is a carpenters tool to determine if the post he is building is straight, available at your local hardware stores.It made a difference in my system. Try to acquire the biggest you can find with the flat bottom and a hole in the middle ]:)
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Jon Agner » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:56 pm

buknoy wrote:tried to use a plumb bob (hulog) :lol: . it is a carpenters tool to determine if the post he is building is straight, available at your local hardware stores.It made a difference in my system. Try to acquire the biggest you can find with the flat bottom and a hole in the middle ]:)


last thing I want to use ..... honestly 8)
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Mamimili » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:11 am

buknoy wrote:tried to use a plumb bob (hulog) :lol: . it is a carpenters tool to determine if the post he is building is straight, available at your local hardware stores.It made a difference in my system. Try to acquire the biggest you can find with the flat bottom and a hole in the middle ]:)


Sounds scary, how to relax and listen?
Probably a good idea to not test on a 45
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby JackD201 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:00 am

My main TT has vacuum hold down and the platter floats on an airbearing. While it was already dead quiet, spookily quiet, and practically no warpage to speak of, to my surprise the manufacturer still came out with a clamp. What the hell, I tried it anyway. Difference was small but noticeable. The clamp is designed to suck out resonance starting just above arm resonance frequencies. Remember when I said the difference was small? Yup the effect is felt not heard and heard felt with recordings that go looooooooowwwwwww. Impressin is just slightly cleaner and punchier bass. I could live without it but as they say, "Nandiyan na eh".

My other TT a TW AC-3 has always sounded better without a clamp, it was designed that way. My 1200s and 1210s I do not even bother clamping. When I had VPIs, clamping was a must for image focus and density.

Paul, eat the oyster yet? Loved that line! :D :D :D
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Re: Is a record clamp/stabilizer/weight really effective?

Postby Mamimili » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:49 am

Jack, i happily give away all my oysters!
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