Moderator: dante
plasticman wrote:From experience diff designs, diff material on diff tables do affect sound to varying degrees.
Whether the change in sound us pleasing or not again DEPENDS on the listener.
hearhead wrote:Ive always wondered about this too.
Is there a standard weight for a clamp?
Wouldnt an ill conceived clamp have a bearing on a TTs accuracy?
Coz if a clamp hampers a TTs speed wouldnt that throw off your pitch as well as some setup options like VTA and the like?
Would want to try one out too for some mildly (very subtly) warped records i have.
More importantly does it improve sound audibly?
Jervill wrote:hearhead wrote:Ive always wondered about this too.
Is there a standard weight for a clamp?
Wouldnt an ill conceived clamp have a bearing on a TTs accuracy?
Coz if a clamp hampers a TTs speed wouldnt that throw off your pitch as well as some setup options like VTA and the like?
Would want to try one out too for some mildly (very subtly) warped records i have.
More importantly does it improve sound audibly?
It will have a bearing on the TT's accuracy if the main platter bearing cannot support the added mass and the wear and pressure affects it's performance. For most bearings this is not an issue. A central clamp puts the weight directly over the platter bearing so does not intrude on the drive systems ability to spin the platter. (Don't know for direct drive...) It has no added flywheel effect as such. Peripheral clamps on the other hand add weight on the edge of the platter increasing the flywheel effect. This may exaggerate any imbalance in the platter which may highlight wow and flutter issues. The weight and mass of both types may quieten bearing noise by damping it or increasing the pressure on the bearing. For the types of platters and motors in serious TTs, I doubt that these things would be an issue for accurate and consistent platter drive and rotation.
I can think of an ill conceived application if the clamp chosen is of sufficient weight and mass to deteriorate the bearing. That'll be like doing a work out every record change IMO . Also if the clamp and headshell combo stops the arm tracking the last bit of the grooves, as in the two touch stopping the arm from carrying on.
If it's just a matter of straightening out some mildly warped records then use a lighter weight. I use a cheap Pro-ject clamp for this purpose. I don't feel comfortable playing with anything too heavy as I'm conscious of dropping it on the arm! For using them on normal records, then the audible improvement would be reliant on how the weight damps the bearing and platter and how it affects the record and platter interface (controlling the vibration coming from the table or through the sound pressure in the air if you like cranking it up!).
These are the conditions that I think the clamp addresses mainly and the reason why result is dependent on application and why there are a lot of different weights to choose from. I'm sure there are other theories.
Jon Agner wrote:Clamps can be a hit or a miss, depending on the weight, material and actual use. Its also dependent on the material and design of the turntable platter, and likewise, the design and material used for the tonearm.
A few years ago, MandyM and I were toying around on how different materials for the clamps affect the sound, with quite an interesting result. Its not simply to flatten records or to simply provide stability.... there's a science to this and sometimes, its harder to explain this with words as its much better to listen to it.
MandyM still continues to experiment on this BTW, so a visit to Lake Sampaloc is something you can consider. In my case, well, try to check with Kabubi/Buboy if he can lend you the clamp that I gave him, and let me know how if there's an effect I wish I could lend you one but I'm too far away now and much of my system is now in storage.
Superman wrote:Jon Agner wrote:Clamps can be a hit or a miss, depending on the weight, material and actual use. Its also dependent on the material and design of the turntable platter, and likewise, the design and material used for the tonearm.
A few years ago, MandyM and I were toying around on how different materials for the clamps affect the sound, with quite an interesting result. Its not simply to flatten records or to simply provide stability.... there's a science to this and sometimes, its harder to explain this with words as its much better to listen to it.
MandyM still continues to experiment on this BTW, so a visit to Lake Sampaloc is something you can consider. In my case, well, try to check with Kabubi/Buboy if he can lend you the clamp that I gave him, and let me know how if there's an effect I wish I could lend you one but I'm too far away now and much of my system is now in storage.
No longer in Pasig, bro?
Jon Agner wrote:Clamps can be a hit or a miss, depending on the weight, material and actual use. Its also dependent on the material and design of the turntable platter, and likewise, the design and material used for the tonearm.
A few years ago, MandyM and I were toying around on how different materials for the clamps affect the sound, with quite an interesting result. Its not simply to flatten records or to simply provide stability.... there's a science to this and sometimes, its harder to explain this with words as its much better to listen to it.
MandyM still continues to experiment on this BTW, so a visit to Lake Sampaloc is something you can consider. In my case, well, try to check with Kabubi/Buboy if he can lend you the clamp that I gave him, and let me know how if there's an effect I wish I could lend you one but I'm too far away now and much of my system is now in storage.
Jervill wrote:Jon Agner wrote:Clamps can be a hit or a miss, depending on the weight, material and actual use. Its also dependent on the material and design of the turntable platter, and likewise, the design and material used for the tonearm.
A few years ago, MandyM and I were toying around on how different materials for the clamps affect the sound, with quite an interesting result. Its not simply to flatten records or to simply provide stability.... there's a science to this and sometimes, its harder to explain this with words as its much better to listen to it.
MandyM still continues to experiment on this BTW, so a visit to Lake Sampaloc is something you can consider. In my case, well, try to check with Kabubi/Buboy if he can lend you the clamp that I gave him, and let me know how if there's an effect I wish I could lend you one but I'm too far away now and much of my system is now in storage.
That's a very interesting experiment. Somewhat difficult to evaluate as I imagine. For any given material there is a difference in mass. To achieve the same weight, for example, of say aluminium (2.7g/cm3 density) to Delrin (1.5 g/cm3) then the physical dimensions of the puck would be different. How would one then eliminate the possibility that the difference in sound was from material and not the puck's geometric shape? (To achieve the same weight, a clamp made from Delrin would have to be taller than an aluminium one if the diameter of both was to be kept away from fouling the arm on the run-out grooves, for example. The height difference I assume would have an effect depending on the type and condition of the platter bearing.) If you kept the physical dimensions of the pucks the same, how would one eliminate the possibility that the difference is then attributable to mass as opposed to material?
I need to try it I suppose and do some listening tests for myself. I've not delved in to clamps as much... Need to get over the fear of dropping one on the arm.
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