Phonostages: Solid State vs. Tubed vs. Battery Powered.

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Phonostages: Solid State vs. Tubed vs. Battery Powered.

Postby stereophile » Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:23 am

Ok guys, what's your take on these? Has anyone sampled all three in their system?

There seems to be an upsurge of interest on battery powered phonostages in the EU & US: quieter/blacker backgrounds, etc. Locally, there is renewed interest in tubed phonostages as evidenced by the WS tube phono stage.

At present, I use a MF X-LP(walang kamatayan :D ). It's cheap, but it does what it's supposed to very well. Let's hear from the other analog fans...
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Solid State vs. Tubed vs. Battery Powered

Postby john » Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:41 am

Solid State MM,MC and MM-MC phono preamps - existed on every integrated amplifiers and receivers of most electronic products manufacturers. RIAA curves was set at 20Hz - 20Khz +/- 0.3db. This limited frequency bandwidth hindered us audiophiles to listen to the natural noises which was impressed on the recording thus eliminating the perceptual involvement of being there at the recording studio.

Dolby Labs made lots of money on the Dolby B,C, HX-PRO and S during the days of the Cassette Tapes by employing filtering circuitry... Thus paralleling the RIAA curves. Noise is really a part of the music. A flat music is synanymous to taking food without salt.

Tubed Phono MM and MC preamps - Their ressurgence was brought back by the works of Jean Hiraga and Be Yamamura in Europe... and lots of Japanese Audiophiles. The wider bandwidth response of the tubes made music more involving and the distortions inherent to the tubes are very pleasant to the ears. The most critical part in designing a Tube MM and MC phono preamp is the power supply section. HUM is posing a great challenge because the designer should be critical in choosing the parts and tubes to be used on the circuit, otherwise the music will be sitting on the HUM. Feedback circuitry should be avoided because they are employed in the circuit to correct the signals from the source...

Battery Powered have two types:

Battery Powered Solid State- Too clinical and very tight. Although comes with a very clean soundstage and pinpoint imaging the sonic is dry. I would suggest that the SLEW RATE of the circuit plays a big factor here.


Battery Powered Tubed - The ideal Phono preamplifier! No power supply related noise is generated. But the disadvantage of using batteries and the dangers it brings about ( leaking acids and explosions may occur in recharging them) should merit a lot of safety precautions.



A very well designed Tubed Phono Preamplifier ( AC powered) should be considered. Anyway, A little amount of HUM and TUBE HiSS doesn't bother many Audiophiles. Audionote step-up Trannies does HUM!
Last edited by john on Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hyperion » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:04 pm

All things being equal, battery powered components (not only phono stages actually although they are the biggest beneficiary) have an inherent advantage. The lack of rectifier and filtering circuitries and pure DC power means no hum and less noise.

However there is the added cost and inconvenience of replacing or recharging the batteries.

Then there is the fact that a better designed AC powered phono stage can still sound better than a DC powered one. Subjective preferences also come into play, such that a not so refined but lively and dynamic AC powered phono stage can be preferred to an ultrasilent, refined but too easy sounding DC powered phono stage too.
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Postby stereophile » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:10 pm

John-

Thank you very much for your dissertation albeit in chapters :D , concerning phonostages.

I asked the question both for my analog enlightenment and for others who intend to get into analog and hopefully save a few pesos by getting the phonostage of choice for their system. There is a revival of analog right now. Vinyl sales are up. Many audio enthusiasts are resurrecting their ttables and LPs. Their amps w/ phono sections may have not been as lucky, so they now have to look for an outboard solution.

I eagerly await part 2 of your dissertation! :)

MSM- iba talaga ang mga perks ng isang loan officer... do you think you can secure me a 25 year loan so I can buy a Boulder 2008? :roll: :lol2:
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Postby arnoldc » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:26 pm

after reading the replies, i'd like to try the Hagerman Bugle (battery powered MM phono stage) with Peerless 15095, must be a CHEAP and potent combination.

msm, pautang nga. upgrade ko ttable ko sa Oracle Delphi V and Air Tangent ;)
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Postby Hyperion » Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:20 pm

Arnie, the Bugle's two 9 V batteries are good for only 16 hours of playback I think. It can get real expensive in a hurry considering that 9V batteries are not exactly cheap. There is an AC psu option but that will probably throw away the DC power advantages and make the phono stage sound less impressive.
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Postby arnoldc » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:00 pm

hansen, i hope you're healing well. ala bang rechargeable 9V?
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:36 pm

stereophile, arnoldc,

Mahirap umutang sa banko for a loan to finance audio equipment. :x

Patay tayo kay Chairman dyan. :lol:

I can see it now......

Mr. Chairman: Mr. MSM, are you seriously recommending to the Executive Committee that we finance the whimsical urge of your client to upgrade his audio equipment :?: :evil:

You're FIRED Mr. MSM :!:

:lol:
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Postby Hyperion » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:48 pm

Im already well Arnie.

There are some rechargeable 9V like the energizer ($10 each, $25 yung charger) but you'll need at least 4 of em used alternately for uninterrupted musical enjoyment. Then you have to keep in mind that even rechargeable batteries have a finite charging/recharging lifespan. Still, small price to pay actually if the sound quality is tops but what if its not as good as say ... the AC powered tubed Cornet?
Last edited by Hyperion on Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby arnoldc » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:49 pm

aha! i found something

Image

charges up to 1,000 times = 16,000 hours = 666 days (ooops! what a number) @ 24 hours a day = 22 months

not bad eh?

i think i'll go for the Hagerman Cornet... he he
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:12 pm

Wala bang phono stage that runs on 12 volts DC :?:

If yes, Motolite pwede na. :) Subok na matatag :!: :D
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Postby stereophile » Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:27 am

MSM- in the unlikely event that you get fired for securing a loan for me, take heart, there's a full time job waiting for you: MODERATOR OF THE ANALOG FORUM! :D
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:17 pm

stereophile wrote:MSM- in the unlikely event that you get fired for securing a loan for me, take heart, there's a full time job waiting for you: MODERATOR OF THE ANALOG FORUM! :D


Moderator :?: Naku po, madaming iiyak pag nangyari yan. :lol:
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Postby m_shoe_maker » Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:24 pm

Maybe somebody is willing to purchase, try out in his own system, and give an appropriate evaluation of a Phonomena battery powered phono stage. :roll:

Medyo mura mura pa yon. :)

The best candidates would be people with 2 arms hooked up on 1 table. :wink: :D Sabay naka Denon MC. :wink: :D
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Postby johnmarc0 » Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:57 pm

Guys,

Actually me and corrsty have been toying the idea of a motor battery phono stage for some time now, once the WS phono stage is done, my sub project is to adapt it for battery powered system on standby charge. Kaso lang 10x12V batteries kailangan ko...grrrrr

JM
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Postby stereophile » Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:43 am

Those 10x12 Motolites will eat up more real estate than my whole audio system--not to mention the WAF & all the cables from them! :(
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