Noise in Local LPs

[Quiel]

Can anything be done to make local LPs quieter (with respect to noise)? Tried cleaning several times w/o much encouraging results...

[KD]

Some cartridges bring out the noise less than others. Does the tip geometry have anything to do with it? I have a Sumiko Blue Point (High Output MC) on my turntable now and I notice it is quieter than other carts I have heard, such as a Shure M44-7 and an Audio Technica AT92E.

[stereophile]

KD has a valid point.

The tip of your stylus can contribute to noise. As the tip becomes finer/digs deeper into the groove, the noise diminishes. I have a Shure M447 cart. I tried both the N447 and the N55E stylus on it. Both have high surface noise as compared to a Shure V15xMR.

The overall condition of the surface of the LP has a lot to contribute too. Whether a local or imported pressing, if they are mint, they will run generally quiet. I might tip the scales a hair toward the import. Once scuffed or with palpable scratches, it becomes an obstacle course for the stylus.

If such an LP is so valuable to you, you could buy a LASER Turntable by ELP! $$$:evil: It reads deep into the groove and that LP will sound mint (as long as it is a CLEAN LP).

Would you spend $10K on a Laser ttable to read a PhP50 local pressing? I doubt it. You'd be better off looking for a cleaner copy. But if you had pockets so deep and are into technological leaps at the cutting edge of the analogue stratosphere...

[ihatejazz]

Can anything be done to make local LPs quieter (with respect to noise)? Tried cleaning several times w/o much encouraging results...

Not all local pressings are noisy, some can be deightfully quiet. Either you inherited abused (then its no good, either you keep it because you like the music or keep it until you upgrade the copy), either iit was in storage for years (you will spot it by all the molds in the surface)no matter how you clean the record it wil forever be noisy, either the previous owner was playing it with a wornout stylus thus ruining the grooves.

The manner on how you clean your records could be another factor. If you are getting to be a serious analog enthusiast investing ina record cleaner is the best thing you can do.

[ihatejazz]

[quote="stereophile"]


If such an LP is so valuable to you, you could buy a LASER Turntable by ELP! $$$:evil: It reads deep into the groove and that LP will sound mint (as long as it is a CLEAN LP).

quote]
all new LPs, specially the audiophile presings are dead quiet, you don't need a ELP for it. Besides, try putting an scratchy record on an ELP it will also sound scratchy.

The ELP is a joke. It was introduced some 15 years ago with almost no following. They are trying to remarket it but..................The price tag of the ELP is not that high considering we are an age where $10K front end rigs are no longer considered expensive. There are cartridges more expensive than the ELP. so if one wants to assault the state of the art in analog I dont think this is not the way to go

[Quiel]

Not all local pressings are noisy, some can be deightfully quiet.

How sad coz these LPs are shiny. To me, this only means that getting good/clean used LPs is not an easy task. The best gauge really is playing them.

I agree that not all local LPs are bad. I got really good ones, too. But as far my collection is concerned, local LPs are generally inferior to imported ones.

[Quiel]

KD has a valid point.

The tip of your stylus can contribute to noise. As the tip becomes finer/digs deeper into the groove, the noise diminishes. I have a Shure M447 cart. I tried both the N447 and the N55E stylus on it. Both have high surface noise as compared to a Shure V15xMR.

am using new cart/stylus so this may not be the cause for the noise. looks like it's more of an LP problem.

so can I use either of these stylus for M447 cart: N55E, V15xMR? tama ba? care to share your impression of these needles?

[av_phile]

There is nothing much that cleaning will do to eliminate surface noise if such noise is caused by impurities present in the vinyll pressing to begin with. Local pressings were known to exhibit higher surface noise. Quality control besides, one culprit is traceable to the use of recycled vinyl which became widespread after the oil crises of the early 70s. Vinyl is petrol-based. Recycled vinyls contain impurities that can give rise to surface noise, pops and clicks that otherwise would not present in a well pressed pristine material. Recyled vinyls coupled with thinner and thinner pressings became the standard worldwide in order to keep prodcution cost down and continue to make them affordable to the masses. It was then that manufacturers came out with audiophile-grade pressings using prisitine vinyls and thicker LPs but at premium prices.

[stereophile]

Quiel wrote:

How sad coz these LPs are shiny. To me, this only means that getting good/clean used LPs is not an easy task. The best gauge really is playing them.

The same problem exists for some imported pre-owned LPs. I have a couple of these 'mirror like/glossy' surfaced LPs bought from garage sales or fleamarkets. They look so clean on inspection, but break your heart on playback. The problem is grunge in the grooves due to dust/dirt deposited over time. Unless you have a special LP 'refresher' wherein a special stylus digs into the groove and excavates the gunk, I simply wash and wash and wash the LP (a record cleaner helps). I then place the LP on a spare 'table, w/ an undamaged, not too expensive cart (Shure M447), mounted and attempt to let the stylus dig out that gunk. I do not listen to it while doing this. Of course, you do this at your own risk.

I wonder if ihatejazz knows of such a 'refresher'. Does the Loricraft record cleaner do this?

so can I use either of these stylus for M447 cart: N55E, V15xMR? tama ba? care to share your impression of these needles?

The N55E needle fits into the M447 cart. The stylus of the V15xMR is dedicated for that cart only. What's the diff between them? I have played the same tracks on an LP and compared them. The N447 stylus(white), has a round tip and does not dig as deep into the grooves. Very nice bass, but not as detailed in the mids/highs. It also picks up a lot of surface noise. The N55E stylus(cream) isusually sold with the N557 cart-if you could find any. Sometimes, you can find the stylus sold separately. This stylus has an elliptical/bi-radial tip. It digs a bit deeper into the grooves thus producing more detail, with a tad less bass. The V15xMR is the top of the line MM audiophile cart by Shure. It costs at least 5x more than either of the twoprevious carts. The stylus has a 'brush' built in to clean the grooves before the stylus hits them (it can only do so much). It has a 1.0-1.5gm tracking force. You won't wear out the grooves of your LPs as much. The micro-ridge stylus is so fine, it really digs deep into the grooves, picking up less surface noise. It has a blacker background, lush midrange/highs, a not so bloated bass as found with the M447. Female vocals are lovely on this cart.

As compared to a Grado Silver MM cart, I feel the Grado has a more laid-back and balanced over-all presentation. It does not have as black a background, nor as lush a midrange as the V15. I prefer the Grado for jazz/classical recordings and the Shure for vocals.

But that's as far as MM carts are concerned. If you want even more detail, blacker backgrounds, tighter bottom ends and a richer midrange, you have to cross over to the MC region. MSM will be able to give you a better review as I don't have as much experience w/ the more expensive MC carts. I've compared a standard Denon DL103 to the Shure V15xMR. As good as the Shure V15xMR is, the DL103 blew the V15 into the dust.

You really have to swap carts and compare them on the same 'table/set-up to have a true gauge to their differences. As you enter further into the netherworld of the MC carts, the price range gets steeper. All I'd suggest, is that the price of your cart, should not exceed the cost of your 'table. A far more expensive cart, requires a better tonearm/'table and phono stage to handle/bring out its full potential.