Audiophile Terms

[Quiel]

What do these words mean: analytical, rolloff (as in treble rolloff)? Pinoy trans would be very much welcome! Thanks!

[mozilla]

rolloff (as in treble rolloff)?

The human hearing is said to be able to hear 20hz-20khz. Following that & generally speaking for purposes of this illustration, good sound repro should have a flat 20-20k freq response (0db flat).

If your system's highs have a hi-freq response that goes down say -1db at 12khz, then -2db at 15khz, then -3db at 20khz it is said to be "rolling off" as this is reflected as a downward sloping curve in a freq response chart.

This means that the hi-freq extremes will have a lower output viz the rest of the freq spectrum. You will hear less highs affecting transient response, etc. The impression of reduced treble produces a rolled off and dull (depending of how rolled-off it is) sound.

Some systems are designed to be flat up to 30khz-this is to make sure there is not even a hint of rolloff all the way to 20khz-the threshold for human hearing.

[rtsyrtsy]

ROLL OFF

Building on Mozilla's answer, frequency response is often presented as a graph. Frequency (in Hertz or Hz) is on the horizontal axis while loudness (in decibels or db) is on the vertical axis.

A piece of gear is said to have "flat frequency response" if its frequency response graph shows loudness within a certain acceptable range as you go from 20Hz to 20,000Hz.

As has been pointed out by vintage gear fanatics before, designers in the old days didn't think humans hear above 15,000Hz and hence designed gear to have flat response only to that point. We now know that some humans can hear up to 20,000 Hz and you've got modern day designers delivering gear that goes up to 30,000 even 40,000 Hz! They say those inaudible frequencies have harmonics (distortion?!?) in the audible range that has an audible effect.

Gear that's rolled off on 20,000Hz range doesn't mean it sounds bad. Listen to Ike's Voigt. Also listen to vintage amps.

Roll off also applies to the bass regions. Most bookshelves don't reach 20Hz. They "roll-off" beginning 50-60 Hz, some even higher. Again, rolled off bass doesn't necessarily mean bad sound. Listen to LS3/5a's.

On the side, is frequency = pitch?

ANALYTICAL

My interpretation of "Analytical" is gear that gets the technicalities correct (e.g., flat frequency response, time/phase coherent, etc.) or at least does not commit truly serious flaws but doesn't quite connect emotionally to me.

I prefer to listen to gear that have "flaws" (e.g. Sonus' high-frequency roll-off, mid-bass warmth) but are "musical."

[mozilla]

What do these words mean: analytical

Analytical is related to detail or detail retrieval. Some systems are too detailed that the presentation become 'analytical". Low-level info that is resolved by the component is brought up & thrust at the listener. You'll hear all the nuances-good & bad. This is sometimes a by-product of too much treble agressiveness or brightness.

An analytical system presents a recording at the expense of musicality. There must be a balance betw. too much detail without sounding etched otherwise it becomes fatiguing.

[dinolara]

Related to roll-off.

Most consumer audio system have equalizers that are in V-shape. This is to increase db level of both high and low frequency and reduce the mid.

Related to listening fatigue.

You experience this when system does not produce enough details. Your head tend to fill those missing frequencies. Additionally, your head also tries to tame down those very detailed system.

my .00002 cents
Dino

[rtsyrtsy]

You experience this when system does not produce enough details. Your head tend to fill those missing frequencies. Additionally, your head also tries to tame down those very detailed system.

Interesting insight, Dino.

We always talk about active/passive pres, active passive subs/speakers, etc. but we forget to think about active/passive LISTENERS.

[Guest]

thank you guys for $$$ worth of inputs. now it's time to see if i can relate this to active listening!

[Guest]

Analytical is related to detail or detail retrieval. Some systems are too detailed that the presentation become 'analytical". Low-level info that is resolved by the component is brought up & thrust at the listener. You'll hear all the nuances-good & bad. This is sometimes a by-product of too much treble agressiveness or brightness.

An analytical system presents a recording at the expense of musicality. There must be a balance betw. too much detail without sounding etched otherwise it becomes fatiguing.

IMHO, there is no such thing as too much detail. Nor is there too much nuance. But there is such a thing as keeping the detail coherent and within the music. More often than not, some details particularly transients however are spotlit and overemphasized by most components, making them sound hifi-ish or analytical. Music is about balance. When there is reproduction of transients without the matching harmonic decays, what results is not musical details but distortion.

When something sounds analytical, it is not actually a symptom of a minor tonal abberation like brightness or too much treble. Something that sounds analytical in my experience usually has a compressed dynamic presentation. Not compressed in the usual way where dynamic peaks are truncated, but compressed where dynamic steps are quantized into several discrete levels only, making music sound mechanical and "stepped".

[Guest]

I am guilty of the last post. I forgot to login ... as usual.

[Hyperion]

Darth Hyperion posted the last two messages. Hmm naglogin naman ako the second time around ah ... but guest pa rin lumabas.

[Guest]

rolloff (as in treble rolloff)?

The human hearing is said to be able to hear 20hz-20khz. Following that & generally speaking for purposes of this illustration, good sound repro should have a flat 20-20k freq response (0db flat).

If your system's highs have a hi-freq response that goes down say -1db at 12khz, then -2db at 15khz, then -3db at 20khz it is said to be "rolling off" as this is reflected as a downward sloping curve in a freq response chart.

This means that the hi-freq extremes will have a lower output viz the rest of the freq spectrum. You will hear less highs affecting transient response, etc. The impression of reduced treble produces a rolled off and dull (depending of how rolled-off it is) sound.

Some systems are designed to be flat up to 30khz-this is to make sure there is not even a hint of rolloff all the way to 20khz-the threshold for human hearing.

Moz is right on this one, further though, the human hearing have biases, we tend to hear higher spls in certain frequencies and on some other frequencies we hear lower spl (sound pressure level) so when something is audibly flat, it means, it compensated for this "hearing bias" for humans, thus audio equipement tested for listening flatness is compensated for this bias. The standard for this bias is given by AES known as "A weighted SPL curve", check their site. The curve shows deliberate roll on and roll offs. Some recordings use this as an equalization basis but audiophiles do not like these recordings, no A weighted equalized recording ever made it to audiophile ref lists.

So be careful you maybe identifying roll offs and blame your equipment but the culprit is actually the recording. You may end up misjudging your equipment

JM

[johnmarc0]

Ngee,

Sorry I logged on as guest, my mistake

JM

[mozilla]

Here's a take from Robert Harley's Book "The Complete Guide To High-End Audio", Chapter on Critical Listening/section on Detail & Analytical Systems (italics are used in the book to define audio terminology):

Detail refers to small or low-level components of the musical presentation... Many audio components hype detail, giving transient signals and etched character. Sure, we hear all the information, but the presentation becomes aggressive, analytical, and fatiguing. Low level information is brought up & thrust at us. We feela sense of relief when the music is turned down or off - not a good sign.

Components that err in the opposite direction don't have this etched and analytical quality, but neither do they resolve all the musical information in the recording...we aren't as offended by the presentation as we are with an analytical system, but something is missing that we need for musical satisfaction.

..The music playback system must walk a fine line reolution of real musical information and sounding analytical.