HD Media Player as transport?

[newbieforever]

it's me again!

has anyone ever tried using those HD media players (Measy/Popcorn hour/WD TV) for audio (FLAC) files? how do these players compare to standalone CD players/transports? better yet, how would you rate the following setups?

setup #1:
HD Media Player -> DAC/Preamp -> Amplifier

setup #2:
standard (cheapo) DVD Player (using optical output) -> DAC/Preamp -> Amplifier

setup #3:
standalone CD player (using analog output) -> Integrated Amplifier

setup #4:
CD transport (using optical output) -> DAC/Preamp -> Amplifier

the reason why i ask is that i've been reading a lot about jitter and how it affects sound quality. although i didn't understand most of what i read, it would seem that jitter is enemy no. 1 when it comes to digital sources. note that our primary source would be .FLAC/.mp3 files.

thanks again for your time and patience! rock and roll!

[Hyperion]

Unfortunately most media players are only designed to do one thing well - and that is to play movies. Playing music through them, even with an external dac is mediocre at best. Decent enough for casual listening only.

The most cost effective digital source now is to use a computer and external usb asynchronous 24 bit dac, or any dac with usb-spdif bridge. Or an entry level turntable.

Anything cd based is a dead end already.

[newbieforever]

thanks for the reply!

very interesting.. i thought an HD media player would simply send the digital signal directly to a DAC via SPDIF (similar to how a PC would send its signal directly to a USB DAC). wouldn't this be the case? would the HD player alter/process the signal before sending it out via SPDIF? fiddled with my HD player a bit before and there seems to be an option to output RAW signal via spdif (or was it HDMI? darn it, should write these things down).

and yeah, i agree with you on CDs being a dead end.

[newbieforever]

follow up question:

i already have a DAC/Preamp (Denon DAP 2500a). it has SPDIF and coaxial (digital) inputs. what would be the best way to connect that to a PC/Laptop (in case i go that route)? are the "cheaper" USB-SPDIF converters (ie. Muse, Fiio) any good?

[Hyperion]

These media tanks are designed to do their best playing movies through HDMI. Sure they have a coax digital output but it is optimized to output dolby digital and DTS streams instead of stereo SPDIF; and it is there just to complete a feature list for compatibility with old receivers with no HDMI inputs; not for audio performance.

Not familiar with your denon dac/preamp. Doest it have at least a 24 bit 96kHz dac to play 24 bit HD digital? Not familiar with cheap usb-spdif bridges but the good ones are usually not cheap ... so an asynchronous usb dac like Audioquest Dragonfly is a better entry level solution.

[newbieforever]

now i get it!

been reading in other sites too and opinions seem divided, although many do tend to shy away from these players. nothing definite though, as others seem to swear that these are capable of "bit-perfect" outputs, leaving whatever DAC you have to do all the work.

[timber715]

follow up question:

i already have a DAC/Preamp (Denon DAP 2500a). it has SPDIF and coaxial (digital) inputs. what would be the best way to connect that to a PC/Laptop (in case i go that route)? are the "cheaper" USB-SPDIF converters (ie. Muse, Fiio) any good?

By any chance, have you heard any jitter on your cd player/pc?
Could you please list the rest of the gears you have and use for this....

[newbieforever]

follow up question:

i already have a DAC/Preamp (Denon DAP 2500a). it has SPDIF and coaxial (digital) inputs. what would be the best way to connect that to a PC/Laptop (in case i go that route)? are the "cheaper" USB-SPDIF converters (ie. Muse, Fiio) any good?

By any chance, have you heard any jitter on your cd player/pc?
Could you please list the rest of the gears you have and use for this....

doing a revamp of my set up so i haven't used it yet. so far i just have the pre amp and a pair of Mordaunt Short 5.10. am on the lookout for a main amp (possibly tube) and a transport, which is why i started this thread (ie. to see if my old hd media player would work)

*EDIT*
for those in the same boat as i am (ie. looking for an "outboard" FLAC player without a PC), the LOGITECH SQUEEZEBOX seems highly recommended. would anyone know if this is available locally?

[takussa]

If im correct, I read before that they discontinued it. Anyway yes paddling the same boat, let us/me know what you decide on. So far i have ipod classic to rockbox as an option. But with re of quality if flacs will play properly or with the 'bits', iam unsure. Was thinking of using a mediaplayer as well, thanks to this thread for clarity. A conversation last night had me going for a laptop setup instead. A notebook might do what you think? i too am a forevernuby

[iceman90a]

I download flac or mp3 of new artists that might be interesting qnd play it on the med8er 500 via coax digital to a monica2 NOS DAC. If I like it, it goes on my "to buy list"

[Gino]

I am using an HP netbook to play digital music out through an ODAC to my tube amp. Lately, I've been playing movies too. I played with the idea of a media player too. I was stopped on my track when I realized, 1) A media player's software may not be as good sounding as Foobar on my pc, and 2) I won't be able to connect my usb ODAC to a media player. Well not that I am aware. So I stuck with my netbook and only play SD AVI should I watch videos.

[rtsyrtsy]

Hansen,

What USB to S/PDIF bridges do you recommend?

I will need one shortly when I free up an old Mac Mini for use as my media streamer into a Naim DAC. From readings in various forums (I have none to home audition here in Dubai),the serious contenders appear to be the M2Tech HiFace Evo (plus External Clock plus External Power Supply) or the Audiophileo. Teddy Pardo has the $550 TeddyU2S but I've not seen any reviews yet.

I really don't like the multiple boxes and cabling: computer power supply to computer to USB cable to bridge (3 boxes if you go full monty on the M2Tech) to S/PDIF RCA or BNC to DAC (plus DAC's powersupply in case of Naim), etc. and much prefer the cleanliness of an async USB-DAC but alas, they are not cheap!

[newbieforever]

I am using an HP netbook to play digital music out through an ODAC to my tube amp. Lately, I've been playing movies too. I played with the idea of a media player too. I was stopped on my track when I realized, 1) A media player's software may not be as good sounding as Foobar on my pc, and 2) I won't be able to connect my usb ODAC to a media player. Well not that I am aware. So I stuck with my netbook and only play SD AVI should I watch videos.

do you have a media player on hand? have you tried doing a comparison? just curious..

[newbieforever]

well, was finally able to set my system up after acquiring an amp. decided to try out the HD Player i had lying around to see whether it could indeed substitute as a suitable transport for music (FLAC) files. my set up is as follows:

HD Media Player (HP MP200) ---SPDIF---> Denon DAP 2500A ---RCA---> Hybrid Tube Amp ---Speaker Wire---> Mordaunt Short MS5.10

since i was there already (and since there was a free digital coax input on my DAC), decided to hook up an old DVD Player as well...

DVD Player (cheapo Pioneer) ---Digital Coaxial---> Denon DAP 2500A etc. etc.

my goal was to get the most "direct" path between the transports and the speakers. as such, the tone controls (treble,bass,etc.) on the DAC were bypassed and both DVD and media player were set up to output "RAW" signal.

i was hoping that the media player would, at the very least, be up to par with the DVD player. after all, the DVD player was just a notch above those you can buy off the supermarket rack. much to my dismay, the media player failed miserably even against this featherweight. the sound (from the media player) seemed hollow and desperately lacking in the mids. it was airy, almost "sanitized". good soundstage though, and the separation between instruments was quite pronounced. the DVD player fared much better. it was a lot warmer and more "full", which was what i was aiming for.

i'll probably give it another go later. i'll fiddle around with the HD player's configuration to see if i was just on the wrong setting. but, as of the moment, it would seem sir Hyperion hit the nail right on the head. these things were made to do one thing well... "to play movies through HDMI".

p.s. i'll also try hooking up a laptop to my DAC via a USB DAC/Headphone amp (with Digital Coax output) which i happen to have on hand. i'll let you guys know if this works better than the DVD player. the only reason i didn't do that in the first place is that i'm one of the few who don't personally own a laptop nothing beats a good 'ole desktop, especially for my excel worksheets!

[newbieforever]

If im correct, I read before that they discontinued it. Anyway yes paddling the same boat, let us/me know what you decide on. So far i have ipod classic to rockbox as an option. But with re of quality if flacs will play properly or with the 'bits', iam unsure. Was thinking of using a mediaplayer as well, thanks to this thread for clarity. A conversation last night had me going for a laptop setup instead. A notebook might do what you think? i too am a forevernuby

although i haven't personally tried it, it would seem that iPods can be good transports for digital music files. just make sure that you:
1. use lossless compression (not sure how this is done for Apple)
2. use a line out dock ("LOD" to most people) instead of the headphone outlet

what set up were you thinking of using? also, there are two kinds of iPod classic.. which one is yours? check out this link:
http://macintoshhowto.com/itunes/which- ... ality.html

there are also two kinds of LODs AFAIK (guys, please correct me if i'm wrong). one carries the digital signal directly from the iPod so you can connect it to an outboard DAC and the other utilizes the iPod's onboard DAC but bypasses the headphone amp (and is usually used in conjunction with a portable headphone amp).

[edwin]

I am using a first generation WD media player as a transport in playing flac files to my system. The improvement really came about after replacing the cheap and noisy SMPS with a linear power supply for the media player. Yes, it still cannot fight with my cd player as a transport connected to the same DAC, but without any comparison, it is that good.

Later i tried using a Laptop with a JRiver software to play the same files and it was not as good as the media player. The only improvement came in when a computer wizard friend disable almost all of the features of the Laptop and just to be able to play music. It begun now to sound as good as the media player and the plus side, i could use my iPad as a remote.

[newbieforever]

I am using a first generation WD media player as a transport in playing flac files to my system. The improvement really came about after replacing the cheap and noisy SMPS with a linear power supply for the media player. Yes, it still cannot fight with my cd player as a transport connected to the same DAC, but without any comparison, it is that good.

Later i tried using a Laptop with a JRiver software to play the same files and it was not as good as the media player. The only improvement came in when a computer wizard friend disable almost all of the features of the Laptop and just to be able to play music. It begun now to sound as good as the media player and the plus side, i could use my iPad as a remote.

interesting! do you have a pic of what kind of power supply you used?

also surprised by your experience with the laptop and it not "beating" the media player. how did you connect the laptop to your DAC?

[muypogi]

If im correct, I read before that they discontinued it. Anyway yes paddling the same boat, let us/me know what you decide on. So far i have ipod classic to rockbox as an option. But with re of quality if flacs will play properly or with the 'bits', iam unsure. Was thinking of using a mediaplayer as well, thanks to this thread for clarity. A conversation last night had me going for a laptop setup instead. A notebook might do what you think? i too am a forevernuby

although i haven't personally tried it, it would seem that iPods can be good transports for digital music files. just make sure that you:
1. use lossless compression (not sure how this is done for Apple)
2. use a line out dock ("LOD" to most people) instead of the headphone outlet

what set up were you thinking of using? also, there are two kinds of iPod classic.. which one is yours? check out this link:
http://macintoshhowto.com/itunes/which- ... ality.html

there are also two kinds of LODs AFAIK (guys, please correct me if i'm wrong). one carries the digital signal directly from the iPod so you can connect it to an outboard DAC and the other utilizes the iPod's onboard DAC but bypasses the headphone amp (and is usually used in conjunction with a portable headphone amp).

On the line out dock, unless you are using a dock that specifically says it is using a digital stream that bypasses the internal DAC, most, if not all LOD cables/docks will output the analog stream. Apple requires licenses from those who want to access the pure digital stream, so any generic dock or cable will only be able to access the analog output.

To be perfectly frank, you should keep the setup simple. A laptop/desktop can serve as a very good source, either wired (via USB if PC, via toslink or USB if you have a macbook) or wireless (via iTunes using an Airport Express) connected to an outboard DAC.

[Hyperion]

let me be clear on one thing ... computer based server does have a few prerequisites for it to be good:

1.) 24 bit asynchronous dac with usb input and ASIO driver

2.) media player app that is compatible with the dac's ASIO driver (JRiver, Audirvana etc) and setup properly - many computer audiophiles actually install the ASIO driver but NEVER use it playing instead through the default higher latency Windows Directsound or Mac OS' coreaudio which aren't designed for high resolution audio.

3.) a good USB cable (kimber B bus, wireworld, cardas clear etc)

4.) properly ripped redbook cd (via DB poweramp or EAC) or 24 bit music files

[newbieforever]

let me be clear on one thing ... computer based server does have a few prerequisites for it to be good:

1.) 24 bit asynchronous dac with usb input and ASIO driver

2.) media player app that is compatible with the dac's ASIO driver (JRiver, Audirvana etc) and setup properly - many computer audiophiles actually install the ASIO driver but NEVER use it playing instead through the default higher latency Windows Directsound or Mac OS' coreaudio which aren't designed for high resolution audio.

3.) a good USB cable (kimber B bus, wireworld, cardas clear etc)

4.) properly ripped redbook cd (via DB poweramp or EAC) or 24 bit music files

thanks for the tips sir! very helpful

question on point no.1: would it matter (ie. if the USB DAC is asynchronous/higher end) if i plan to use the digital coaxial output of the DAC to connect to my outboard DAC (as opposed to using the analog outputs). would this bypass the USB DAC's chip? furthermore, if i were to acquire a laptop/desktop with a built in digital output, how would this compare to using a USB DAC? in other words:

laptop/desktop --USB Cable--> USB DAC --(Digital) coaxial cable --> DAC

vs.

laptop/desktop --(Digital coaxial cable --> DAC

question on point no. 2: how can we know for sure if the media player supports (and utilizes) the ASIO driver during playback? planning to use the ever reliable Foobar.