LP records query

[XLR_silver]

have a number of newbie questions on LPs.

which record companies / labels abroad still make brand new LPs? are there old titles still being reissued? are they affordable?

i also heard from a friend that there's a syndicate group in China
that produces "pirated" LPs. they supposedly package it well so they will look like NOS copies but are actually freshly pressed LPs that came from
digitally encoded material like CDs.

anyone heard of the same rumour?

[arnoldc]

Simply Vinyl makes re-issues, legally, among other companies.

Vinyl piracy? It is a rumour indeed...

[XLR_silver]

Simply Vinyl makes re-issues, legally, among other companies.

Vinyl piracy? It is a rumour indeed...

have you actually tried ordering from Simply Vinyl? how do you find them?

as for the piracy rumour... i do think there is an economic rationale for this kind of piracy knowing that there seems to be growing number of people who are willing to pay so much for LP records.

[corrsty]

Some other reissue labels:

1. Classic Records
2. Analogue Productions
3. Speaker's Corner
4. Sundazed

Problem now is shipping......

[Audio_Tyro]

have a number of newbie questions on LPs.

i also heard from a friend that there's a syndicate group in China
that produces "pirated" LPs. they supposedly package it well so they will look like NOS copies but are actually freshly pressed LPs that came from
digitally encoded material like CDs.

This is not far fetched. With the resurgence of analog playback systems, there is indeed a niche market for such a business. Moreover, I'm sure the sound would be even more "analog-like" (analog-ous) since they come from superior source, the one with laserlike accuracy, rudely referred to as - Digital ! .

[Guest]

have a number of newbie questions on LPs.

i also heard from a friend that there's a syndicate group in China
that produces "pirated" LPs. they supposedly package it well so they will look like NOS copies but are actually freshly pressed LPs that came from
digitally encoded material like CDs.

This is not far fetched. With the resurgence of analog playback systems, there is indeed a niche market for such a business. Moreover, I'm sure the sound would be even more "analog-like" (analog-ous) since they come from superior source, the one with laserlike accuracy, rudely referred to as - Digital ! .

ha ha!

and of you're really unlucky baka dalawang ikot pa yan!

LP master ---> CD -----> pirated LP -----> CD 2 ------> pirated LP 2

baka makasuhan ka pa ng dolby kasi puedeng DD ang itawag
sa encoding ng plaka mo DD for Doubly (or 'Doble') Digital!

[stjohn]

hi xlr
never heard of this news... but am sure these 'counterfeit LPs' will sound trash ...

now come to think of it - this defies the laws of economics... could the perpetrators figured-out that a niché market could cough out their ROI in a 'reasonable' time? now, if they did, then this 'reasonable' time frame is a looong time, which means also that those who are doing this have access to studios, pressing machines, etc that have always been there (i.e. old mills?? established facilities??)... whatever, I can't think of any encouraging reason why some people would do so... kung CD, pwede pa, pero LPs?

my 0.1c
egay

[XLR_silver]

hi xlr
never heard of this news... but am sure these 'counterfeit LPs' will sound trash ...

now come to think of it - this defies the laws of economics... could the perpetrators figured-out that a niché market could cough out their ROI in a 'reasonable' time? now, if they did, then this 'reasonable' time frame is a looong time, which means also that those who are doing this have access to studios, pressing machines, etc that have always been there (i.e. old mills?? established facilities??)... whatever, I can't think of any encouraging reason why some people would do so... kung CD, pwede pa, pero LPs?

my 0.1c
egay

hello egay!

first of all, it was nice to have bumped into you last friday. in fact, i have a question for you but its off-topic, so i'll just send you a PM.

my reply:
i would think that the old pressing machines can be had cheap since it no longer makes economic sense for record companies to keep them. i heard that even the few remaining record labels that produce or reprint LPs are having financial difficulties given the (i guess, still) shrinking base of LP listeners.

as long as these syndicates know which LPs are in demand (among the remaining enthusiasts) and where to sell reissues (e.g. on-line) the returns may more than cover the costs, specially if the masters/source used for the pressing just comes from a (possibly, even copied!) CD. with minimal production and promotional costs, it may be difficult to count this scam out just yet.

for those with entry-level analog setups like mine, it may be difficult to hear the difference between an LP sourced from a cd and those that came from masters, specially if they are vintage recordings. i also heard that some people (dami ko namang tsismis!) who got into the hobby just keep on buying records (deep pockets!) and collect them for the sake of collecting. they could be potential victims too.

my 0.005 cent

[stjohn]

hmmm...
you have a point... this niché market do HAVE some guys who have really deeep pockets.

OK accepted, then we are all potential victims ... so we have to figure out how to protect ourselves if we buy NEW records

solution 1: buy only used ones

...this is really a terrible world... many things are being faked...

o well, better enjoy the music while it's there!

egay

[arcturus]

The problem with counterfiet LP's are the source for the materials and equipments.
Cutting lathe for the mother lacquer i.e Neumann, Westrex, and Scullly.
From the mother laquer(positive) to the metal stampers (negative)that pressed the vinyl biscuit into LP's. You need a lab for this process.
to make a negative impression of the mother laquer into metal disc
stamper. So the hassle of acquiring these equipment and the process
of making the vinyl is not worth it. if you got caught.
Most of the new vinyl in the US is done by RTI.

[Guest]

The problem with counterfiet LP's are the source for the materials and equipments.
Cutting lathe for the mother lacquer i.e Neumann, Westrex, and Scullly.
From the mother laquer(positive) to the metal stampers (negative)that pressed the vinyl biscuit into LP's. You need a lab for this process.
to make a negative impression of the mother laquer into metal disc
stamper. So the hassle of acquiring these equipment and the process
of making the vinyl is not worth it. if you got caught.
Most of the new vinyl in the US is done by RTI.

such a complex process does appear daunting and expensive. as mentioned, though, all of this speculation on LP piracy assumes that access to equipment / labs is fairly easy.

as for processes: i find it reasonable to assume that China, currently the cheapest location for manufacturing almost anything under the sun, is a cost efficient (child labor?) venue for moulding the laquer and the stampers... the cost of being caught included.

just my 0.0025 cent

[Noam]

have a number of newbie questions on LPs.

which record companies / labels abroad still make brand new LPs? are there old titles still being reissued? are they affordable?

Most of the big labels and many of the smaller ones are still represented on vinyl, for certain releases. The exceptions is with jazz and especially classical - where there's been next to no new releases in the last 10-12 years (though plenty of reissues). Some artists insist that their releases appear on LP - Beck, Pearl Jam, Neil Young, Tom Waits, Wilco and others. Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash too. I also hear that nearly every new release is printed on limited run vinyl (500-1000 copies)- but which isn't commercially available but goes on a standing order to uber-rich "Hollywood collectors". I'm not sure I believe that, but it's possible.

To get an idea of what's available out there in new vinyl, try these links:
http://www.redtrumpet.com
http://www.acousticsounds.com
http://www.sundazed.com
http://www.fantasyjazz.com
http://www.coupdarchet.com
http://www.classicrecs.com

As to whether it's expensive... by the time it reaches SE Asia-- YES.

i also heard from a friend that there's a syndicate group in China
that produces "pirated" LPs. they supposedly package it well so they will look like NOS copies but are actually freshly pressed LPs that came from
digitally encoded material like CDs.

anyone heard of the same rumour?

No, and I find it highly improbable. But if you have any hard facts about it, I'd love to know. Keep in mind that collectors of rare/valuable LP's can show you the minute differences between a 1961 and 1964 issue of the same record. They could hardly be fooled by a modern reissue, and if counterfeits appeared in any quantity, a lot of alarm bells would go off.

As far as I know, most of the world's supply of LP's is produced at the RTI plant, the Sony/CBS plants (US), and a couple of plants in Germany and England. There are probably also a few smaller places putting out the lesser known dance and hip-hop releases, but not many. Classic Records' website and Cardas' site have some good info on record mastering and pressing.

Noam

[ambel]

It's easy to look for the fake ones. If you are a collector you can easily
spot it and also the source for mastering. One thing for sure you need
the master tape or a 1:1 copy of the master tape. These are buried
in the vaults of the Record Company and you need to get the raw
tapes the ones that are not yet processed EQ, compression,
and etc. Seasoned Mastering Engineers look for the Master tape that
is labeled do not use. I know Classic Records use the expertise of
Bernie Grundman. I've got some Classic Records reissue except for
Brubeck "Time Out" and Holly Cole "Temptation" album. I prefer the
original pressing.