TAS Twin P100 - finally it's over

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TAS Twin P100 - finally it's over

Postby TheAnalogSource » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:50 pm

About a year ago or so, I was commissioned to do the following project - change the RB arm of a P3-24 so the owner can do cartridge rolling. At that time, he has a Zyx Airy R1000 and a Benz Micro Glider. The Zyx being used on the most audiophilic records while the Glider on regular lps. Having used a Grace G-940, i recommended the arm because it has the same mounting distance as the RB at 222mm. I also have a bias towards unipivot being lively sounding.

Image

I haven't listened to the finished project until a few months after. Until then, i realized that the modded table have increased performance from the stock. But of course, it is not just the arm that was added. The owner added a svelte platform as well as a funk firm mat. So I made an analysis on how altogether they sounded better to a point that it can give a TOTL table a run for its money. Soundstage widens a lot. Imaging more define. Lively presentation. Just some of the improvement over the stock.

Good thing one of our good friend has the same vision - to build a low cost table with excellent performance. So now i have a sponsor for the P100 research and development. Keeping my fingers cross, the stock P3-24 is now prep for souping up.

all parts to be replaced removed....
Image

first setback, I cant pull the damn pulley. Have to look for a puller later.
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby Jon Agner » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:58 pm

nice.... parang ganyan din ang ginawa ko sa ProJect TT ko 7 years ago :)

One thing you should be doing is replacing that sub platter pulley with an aluminium upgrade. Or better yet, you can even turn it into an idler drive :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: ;) :)
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby endrik35 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:01 pm

TheAnalogSource wrote:About a year ago or so, I was commissioned to do the following project - change the RB arm of a P3-24 so the owner can do cartridge rolling. At that time, he has a Zyx Airy R1000 and a Benz Micro Glider. The Zyx being used on the most audiophilic records while the Glider on regular lps. Having used a Grace G-940, i recommended the arm because it has the same mounting distance as the RB at 222mm. I also have a bias towards unipivot being lively sounding.

Image

I haven't listened to the finished project until a few months after. Until then, i realized that the modded table have increased performance from the stock. But of course, it is not just the arm that was added. The owner added a svelte platform as well as a funk firm mat. So I made an analysis on how altogether they sounded better to a point that it can give a TOTL table a run for its money. Soundstage widens a lot. Imaging more define. Lively presentation. Just some of the improvement over the stock.

Good thing one of our good friend has the same vision - to build a low cost table with excellent performance. So now i have a sponsor for the P100 research and development. Keeping my fingers cross, the stock P3-24 is now prep for souping up.

all parts to be replaced removed....

Congrats Doc PHILPATH! The REAL UK! :rofl: :devil:

Noly, flood the pulley with acetone then try to spring it off! :)
Image

first setback, I cant pull the damn pulley. Have to look for a puller later.
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby cploogq » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:30 pm

tigil nyo na yang kalokohan nyo!
malapit na mag alak singko :rock: :beer:
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby philpath » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:44 pm

Nobody can replace the original "UPGRADE KING". The original UK will probably have his yellow P3-24 hot rodded also just to retain the title of "__GRADE KING"!!!!!!! Or better still get another P3-24 just to tweak!!!!!! Hail the original and one and only "UPGRADE KING"!!!!! :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby muypogi » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:38 pm

TheAnalogSource wrote:About a year ago or so, I was commissioned to do the following project - change the RB arm of a P3-24 so the owner can do cartridge rolling. At that time, he has a Zyx Airy R1000 and a Benz Micro Glider. The Zyx being used on the most audiophilic records while the Glider on regular lps. Having used a Grace G-940, i recommended the arm because it has the same mounting distance as the RB at 222mm. I also have a bias towards unipivot being lively sounding.

Image

I haven't listened to the finished project until a few months after. Until then, i realized that the modded table have increased performance from the stock. But of course, it is not just the arm that was added. The owner added a svelte platform as well as a funk firm mat. So I made an analysis on how altogether they sounded better to a point that it can give a TOTL table a run for its money. Soundstage widens a lot. Imaging more define. Lively presentation. Just some of the improvement over the stock.

Good thing one of our good friend has the same vision - to build a low cost table with excellent performance. So now i have a sponsor for the P100 research and development. Keeping my fingers cross, the stock P3-24 is now prep for souping up.

all parts to be replaced removed....
Image

first setback, I cant pull the damn pulley. Have to look for a puller later.


Bagay dito i-pair Harbeth . . di ba doc? :devil: :devil: :devil:

Naka Benz pa . . . :rock:
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby philpath » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:14 am

Correct, yan ang bagay kay Doc Endrick. The true "UK"!!!!!!!!
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby docsialu » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:29 am

iba talaga and idol natin lahat na _____ king!!!! walang kakupaskupas sa up_____, hehehehehe
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby muypogi » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:57 pm

Ang bagay sa P100 ni Doc ay ganito:

Pulley: Stainless steel with dual drive belts

Image

Plinth: sandwich plinth

Image

Platter: aluminum platter

Image

Tapos Ortofon 12 inch arm!!!

Image

Ayos!
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby philpath » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:26 pm

Parang MIchael Lim yan mga mods na yan ah!!!! Hehehehehe. Ganyan na subplatter ni Doc E, the famous "UK"!!!! :envy: :envy: :envy: :envy: :envy: :envy:
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby philpath » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:50 am

Wala ba latest Pics and P100? Meron na ba yellow P100 (aka "UK" owned Rega)???? :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^)
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby endrik35 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:25 am

Missing this thread badly Nols! All is quiet in the western front! Any updates on the hotrodded p100 project for my BIGTYM classmate Doc Gilbert? Pics naman diyan! ;)
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby philpath » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:53 pm

endrik35 wrote:Missing this thread badly Nols! All is quiet in the western front! Any updates on the hotrodded p100 project for my BIGTYM classmate Doc Gilbert? Pics naman diyan! ;)


HONGA!!!!!! ;( ;( ;(
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby muypogi » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:11 pm

Baka di pa dumarating yung titanium pulley and platter
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby TheAnalogSource » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:06 am

sorry for the delay....im a little depressed at the moment... i might do damage rather than a better build if i pursue....as you know by now, all my works require tender loving care.
...so i'd rather hold the work for a while and continue when good mood starts again.....

anyhow, just for update.... the long vacation is a bummer for work and all but was a good opportunity for family bonding and all. me, i just consume all the available bottles at night leaving my mornings on a zombie mode hahaha

one of the major part is in by the way...
Image

The P3-24 plinth is one of the parts that i think should need improvement. During last year meet with RG, he even mentioned that the older Planar plinth is better because of its composite layering as compare to the single component of the P3-24. I believe that is also the reason why the need for a corrective brace on the newer RP3 series now with an even lighter plinth. IMHO, the design principle of light plinth is only good if and only if it is very rigid...else the high frequencies with be tamed and the basses muddled.

So the first step is to make the plinth more rigid. However Philpath's requirement is that is should be light enough to carry. So the massive plinth ala Lenco is out.
Machining an X-brace is more complicated thus more expensive...so we opt for a plate brace. Its not that cheap either...almost an RP1 hahaha. Anyhow i believe there will be significant improvement in terms of increase soundstage as well as higher definition when this is in placed.



As with the alum subplatter as mention above, that is the last of my worries...i've heard a supped up P3-24 with an after market aluminum subplatter and im not that impressed.
The glass platter that came with the P3 is heavy enough to have the required inertia for a more stable speed. Maybe the alum subplatter will decrease wobbling but in my experience with several stock P3s i've opened and sold, the wobbling has never been an issue.
What i have in mind though is to increase the traction of the belt to the subplatter and the pulley so as to increase attacks and midbass weight and overall PRAT.


As previously arranged, the RB arm has to go. We want to have our new table livelier than the stock. Maybe an upgrade to an RB700 or an RB1000 is the way to go because of better bearing smoothness and tolerance...but budget consideration leads us to my favorite arm...the JELCO hehehe

However, it got me thinking that if this project will be replicated then what are we going to do with the replaced RB301.... maybe there is a way to improve it. after all, there is a lot of aftermarket alterations of the RB301.... so why cant we build a better one ourselves....

This is what happened to a working RB301 now...as they say Curiousity can kill the arm hahaha
Image
Image

In the spirit of research, we have sacrificed the RB301...its Philpath's anyhow hehehe
but let me share some of my observation...this is important... because i think in order to improve...one should learn what are the issues first...
Even before i have noticed that there is no zero horizontal balance for the arm. I always have thought the this is due to the magnetic antiskate mechanism which will always influence the horizontal movement. But after removing everthing including the antiskate mechanism...i made a decision that the arm post will have to go and have to design a new one with a new horizontal mechanism. The vertical bearings are ok but this being the first complete disassembling we've done....might as well go all the way so its going to be a complete workup...not some bit and pieces voodoo upgrades.

until next time....
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby kabubi » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:26 am

you just had to juxtapose the RB301 arm with the 88, ano? you just had to! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby endrik35 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:50 am

kabubi wrote:you just had to juxtapose the RB301 arm with the 88, ano? you just had to! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



;) Buboy, the arm(cat) was not killed after all. You did rub it in :D

Thanks Noly for updating this thread. I know you had a long rest pero your thread is Doc Philpath's daily staple as well as mine! I agree with you that the cheapest and most cost effective upgrade is changing to a double pulley and double belt! I should have ordered it from michael lim since it's not that expensive but I was afraid to destroy the motor once I pulled out the pulley! :) If I only knew that you were quite adept in dismantling the pulley, I should have ordered 2 sets of double pulleys na. One for me and one for my favorite classmate, Doc BIGTYM Philpath. Did you know that Michael Lim personaly delivered the subplatter to my friend's house in Selangor, Malaysia? very friendly and humble guy...JUST LIKE YOU! ;) :rofl:
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby philpath » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:01 am

TheAnalogSource wrote:Machining an X-brace is more complicated thus more expensive...so we opt for a plate brace. Its not that cheap either...almost an RP1 hahaha. Anyhow i believe there will be significant improvement in terms of increase soundstage as well as higher definition when this is in placed.


Naka!!!! Patay na eh low budget dapat yan!!!! :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby Dodie » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:18 pm

philpath wrote:
TheAnalogSource wrote:Machining an X-brace is more complicated thus more expensive...so we opt for a plate brace. Its not that cheap either...almost an RP1 hahaha. Anyhow i believe there will be significant improvement in terms of increase soundstage as well as higher definition when this is in placed.


Naka!!!! Patay na eh low budget dapat yan!!!! :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:


Kaw pa doc! Ang high end samen......entry level mo lang! Gulong lang yan ng auto mo eh! ISANG GULONG! RESERBA PA!

GANDY BOYS ADVETURE SERIES
BOOK 6: THE WORLD OF ENTRY LEVEL: Philpath's cup of tea???
Last edited by Dodie on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAS P100 - Hot roding a Rega P3-24 Project

Postby endrik35 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:39 pm

Dodie wrote:
philpath wrote:
TheAnalogSource wrote:Machining an X-brace is more complicated thus more expensive...so we opt for a plate brace. Its not that cheap either...almost an RP1 hahaha. Anyhow i believe there will be significant improvement in terms of increase soundstage as well as higher definition when this is in placed.


Naka!!!! Patay na eh low budget dapat yan!!!! :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:

:D
Kaw pa doc! Ang high end samen......entry level mo lang! Gulong lang yan ng auto mo eh! ISANG GULONG! RESERBA PA!

GUNDY BOYS ADVETURE SERIES
BOOK 6: THE WORLD OF ENTRY LEVEL: Philpath's cup of tea???


Dodie, I missed this! Thanks for bringing back the Gandy series! :clap:
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