Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

For the serious and not so serious in audio: DoItYourself and Tubes (SET, PP, Vintage).

Moderator: kabubi

Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:30 am

After the HiFi show at the Dusit Hotel, i have received numerous inquiries about push pull tube amps...when asked
about how much they were willing to spend, all of them came up with low figures giving me the impression that most
folks think that DIY was a cheap way to acquire a tube power amp...could they be correct? let us find out...we will
not consider boutique parts in this discussion, only those that are available from usual sources....

this is my pp EL34 amp...

Image
Image

1. For tube power amps, the single biggest expense is the transformer irons, the power transformer, the output
transformers and chokes....

1.1 As for the sources of power transformers and OPT's, there is Edrel of Alphatech with his Z11/M6 irons...
1.2 then there is Mang Rey Luis, he is one of two unsung heroes of the local DIY scene, making irons for almost
every DIY'er,including the Malabon boys, i am sure there are not many who haven't heard of him, he can be reached at
09323858831...the last time i talked to him, a set of irons for the Dynaco ST70 will set you back at P6,700....
1.3 if you buy the same online here http://store.triodestore.com/st70buildkit.html, the irons will cost
you U$399.95 or about P17K....if you go this route expect to spend a lot more than 17k since shipping will be bloody expensive...
1.4 although i design and wind my own traffos, they are not for sale in general as far as power amps are involved, i
do sell them to young starting DIY'ers or on small pre-amps that i have made...

2. next comes the power tubes....

2.1 JJ seems to be a reliable new production tubes and is available here:i found a local source, their service is
top notch, http://www.epektos.com/catalog/90270c5d ... 4af81.aspx

2.1.1 quad prices for new tubes are as follows, EL34----P3,000; 6L6GC----P3,300, note that you will have to add 150
for shipping......

Image
Image

2.2 Balik-bayan Handicrafts is also a good place to get tubes, large discounts from time to time...

2.3 I also buy from the states NOS TV tubes, these are U$1 each, i find TV tubes as good sounding as the other so
called audio tubes, unfortunately local folks are slow to recognize their virtues nor use them....

2.4. Russian tubes are a revelation to me, they are awesome....and very cheap....

2.4 Gerry Sta Maria, 400-2762 is the other one of my unsung heroes, he can smell tubes a few kilometers away ;D

2.5 the small tubes can set you back another P1000 for a pair of 6CG7, and the 6J9's another P500 for a pair


3. the chassis and how the final finish determines cost...

3.1 current commercial offerings have chassis offerings that are really good to look at, 10mm. panels, nice paint
jobs, something a DIY'er always covet....but with production runs of just one, i think it remains an elusive dream,
economy of scale is not the the best attribute of any diyer...

3.2 in my experience, a powder coated chassis can cost in the neighborhood of about P1500....

4.then the small parts, like sockets, resistors, capacitors, hook-up wires, etc...using non-boutique parts total cost here can set you back another P2,000......


5. here is the controversial part, the labor cost, working overseas, i earn about U$40 per hour, how much do you think should i charge?, how do you think is my time and effort cost? it takes about 12 hours working continuously to complete an amp up to commissioning....

if you do the math, you will get the idea as to cost of a unit.... 8)
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby 0760.lorelei » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:24 pm

yup...that's true it's too expensive to build a tube amp..... :) sometimes people dont get it and they not realize how hard to find a vacuum tube locally...hayyyy naku.
0760.lorelei
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby brady » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:16 am

IMHO, it would be better to build with the maximum expense one is willing to part with .... :)

rather than spend the next year or so replacing parts, replacing the circuit, replacing the chassis, etc...
brady
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 645
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:06 pm

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:56 am

0760.lorelei wrote:yup...that's true it's too expensive to build a tube amp..... :) sometimes people dont get it and they not realize how hard to find a vacuum tube locally...hayyyy naku.


you have to put your ears on the ground, there are still tube stashes to be discovered here and there....just a few months ago, Edrel and i discovered a goldmine of tubes somewhere in the Malate area.....a few months back, my suking magngangalakal brought me some tubes, for the measly sum i paid, the lot contained a boxed jan-nos 6SN7 tube and several directly heated 7pin pentodes meant for battery operation :D.......
Last edited by tony on Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:03 am

brady wrote:IMHO, it would be better to build with the maximum expense one is willing to part with .... :)

rather than spend the next year or so replacing parts, replacing the circuit, replacing the chassis, etc...

Brady, i agree with you 101%, the biggest part of any build is in the planning, you have to decide beforehand what materials are to be used after you have decided what topology you are building.....

i heard stories that ever since the KT120 came out many converted their amps to the tube.....i just hope they replaced the power transformers and OPTS as well to get the maximum out of the tube....if they expected more power by just replacing the tube and changing bias, i do not think they will get what they hoped for.....all they are getting is a more robust tube that will be loafing most of the time, this however is not a bad thing...... ;)

better to sell the existing amp and then build from scratch..... 8)
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby 0760.lorelei » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:18 am

hahahahahaha..thanks sir tony actually i've been craving building a tube amp and feeling addicted to it. perhaps you are correct to put my ears on the ground. :) sir brady thanks for the advice....if you assembled 1 tube amp put all the best part in it from tranny's to output transformer...etc. :) tip's sir tony the location's of goldmine of tube in malate area... :) . thanks
0760.lorelei
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:17 am

nalimas na namin yung tubes doon, wala ka nang aabutan, pero balita ko meron sa bangkal evangelista...... :D mga never heard nga lang....at saka transmitting tubes....but you are always welcome to partake of our loot.... :D
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby harvey_a_vasquez » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:37 pm

Great write up sir Tony.
I am really interested in getting into tube amp and pre amp when I eventually come back.
The above post will give me a better idea on the cost when I get the chance to commission a build from you.
Kudos to you sir, for continuing to promote DIY audio.
User avatar
harvey_a_vasquez
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:17 pm

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:47 pm

harvey_a_vasquez wrote:Great write up sir Tony.
I am really interested in getting into tube amp and pre amp when I eventually come back.
The above post will give me a better idea on the cost when I get the chance to commission a build from you.
Kudos to you sir, for continuing to promote DIY audio.


thank you sir.....i am one DIY'er you can ask questions to....and can justify designs on a technical level.....more lowdowns to come....
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby 0760.lorelei » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:45 pm

:) yup thanks sir chief tony....anyways i have to finish my first tube amp project muna sir, one at a time...i will sir pm you if i need another set of tubes.. :D wag lang too expensive sir chief ha....thanks
0760.lorelei
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby harvey_a_vasquez » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:16 pm

tony wrote:
harvey_a_vasquez wrote:Great write up sir Tony.
I am really interested in getting into tube amp and pre amp when I eventually come back.
The above post will give me a better idea on the cost when I get the chance to commission a build from you.
Kudos to you sir, for continuing to promote DIY audio.


thank you sir.....i am one DIY'er you can ask questions to....and can justify designs on a technical level.....more lowdowns to come....


Will do sir.
I am currently bitten by the DIY bug as well modular synths nga lang.
Learning to read schematics and resistors.
Hopefully sir pagnakabalik nako dyan I can ask you to do tube system for me.
User avatar
harvey_a_vasquez
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:17 pm

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby alexg » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:04 am

Great misunderstanding about DIY, people think it is CHEAP!

I just recently built an El34 PP using Lundahl interstage, motor run caps and couple of Mundorf electrolytic and after I totalled my expenses, I could have bought a Cayin... :D (Tubes are: 5842 for the driver and Tungsol EL34 for the power tubes, resistors are all Dales and Rikens).

The only advantage of DIY is you could vary the design if you understand what you are doing or copy somebody's design and listen to it... :devil:

On this EL34 PP, I can bias individual tubes unlike the ST70 design. I also opted for separate PSU.
User avatar
alexg
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:22 pm

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:17 am

Alex, we missed you at the DIY room....

i have a 6v6 PP and there was this guy talgang low ball ang tawad, pero nadulas sya, bumile daw sya ng 2nd hand branded na power amp for 40k.... :^) :devil:
anyways, i am more inclined to help our other diy'ers instead, at least we talk the same language and understand each other... :lol:

the biggest advantage of DIY is that you do not think profits........ 8) that is why when people ask me how much, i have a hard time answering......i am not a commercial type of person, i am a DIY'er....

oh, my EL34 pp amp can be biased individually and so does not need so called "matched pairs" and can use 6550/KT88 tubes for other flavors....
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby bennjude19 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:33 am

tony wrote:the biggest advantage of DIY is that you do not think profits........ 8) that is why when people ask me how much, i have a hard time answering......i am not a commercial type of person, i am a DIY'er....

oh, my EL34 pp amp can be biased individually and so does not need so called "matched pairs" and can use 6550/KT88 tubes for other flavors....


I'm always inclined in buying Pinoy products, specially with world class quality.
I like the way you DIYers brag about your projects and your builts.
I really want to jump into Tube Amp thing and afraid of NEVER going back digital :lol: :rofl:
If one you guys can help me to find/build an Integrated Tube Amp which can match my Jamo S606 Floor Stander (which I dont want to give up due to sentimental value), then I'll try to dip in my fingers on the Tube bandwagon....of course price is to be considered coz I know its a pricey move to go back to Analog... I started it by buying a Goldring Lenco GL-75 as my source and building-up my LP collection again for the nth time :lol: :lol: :lol:
Kudo's to you Tony and to all DIYers here in WS :clap: :clap: :clap:
User avatar
bennjude19
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:24 pm
Location: Disyerto

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:48 pm

next lowdon will be all about power traffos, please watch for it.....

for those who would like to learn how to wind their own, i have a thread here: http://www.elab.ph/forum/index.php?topic=17495.0 and here......http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-su ... ild-7.html
Last edited by tony on Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:49 pm

bennjude19 wrote:
tony wrote:the biggest advantage of DIY is that you do not think profits........ 8) that is why when people ask me how much, i have a hard time answering......i am not a commercial type of person, i am a DIY'er....

oh, my EL34 pp amp can be biased individually and so does not need so called "matched pairs" and can use 6550/KT88 tubes for other flavors....


I'm always inclined in buying Pinoy products, specially with world class quality.
I like the way you DIYers brag about your projects and your builts.
I really want to jump into Tube Amp thing and afraid of NEVER going back digital :lol: :rofl:
If one you guys can help me to find/build an Integrated Tube Amp which can match my Jamo S606 Floor Stander (which I dont want to give up due to sentimental value), then I'll try to dip in my fingers on the Tube bandwagon....of course price is to be considered coz I know its a pricey move to go back to Analog... I started it by buying a Goldring Lenco GL-75 as my source and building-up my LP collection again for the nth time :lol: :lol: :lol:
Kudo's to you Tony and to all DIYers here in WS :clap: :clap: :clap:


Hi,

i am building a push-pull 6C33 power amp good for about 60watts per channel into 2,4 or 8 ohms.....if you are up to it we can test the amp once completed, your Jamo has a sensitivity of 89db which seems to be not that difficult a load, anyway we will see....
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby bennjude19 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:29 pm

tony wrote:
bennjude19 wrote:
tony wrote:the biggest advantage of DIY is that you do not think profits........ 8) that is why when people ask me how much, i have a hard time answering......i am not a commercial type of person, i am a DIY'er....

oh, my EL34 pp amp can be biased individually and so does not need so called "matched pairs" and can use 6550/KT88 tubes for other flavors....


I'm always inclined in buying Pinoy products, specially with world class quality.
I like the way you DIYers brag about your projects and your builts.
I really want to jump into Tube Amp thing and afraid of NEVER going back digital :lol: :rofl:
If one you guys can help me to find/build an Integrated Tube Amp which can match my Jamo S606 Floor Stander (which I dont want to give up due to sentimental value), then I'll try to dip in my fingers on the Tube bandwagon....of course price is to be considered coz I know its a pricey move to go back to Analog... I started it by buying a Goldring Lenco GL-75 as my source and building-up my LP collection again for the nth time :lol: :lol: :lol:
Kudo's to you Tony and to all DIYers here in WS :clap: :clap: :clap:


Hi,

i am building a push-pull 6C33 power amp good for about 60watts per channel into 2,4 or 8 ohms.....if you are up to it we can test the amp once completed, your Jamo has a sensitivity of 89db which seems to be not that difficult a load, anyway we will see....


Nice to know Sir Tony na may bago kang build, sana po integrated amp para di na need ng preamp....looking forward po sa new build nyo :clap: :clap: :clap:
User avatar
bennjude19
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:24 pm
Location: Disyerto

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby kabubi » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:04 pm

i am building a push-pull 6C33 power amp good for about 60watts per channel into 2,4 or 8 ohms.....if you are up to it we can test the amp once completed, your Jamo has a sensitivity of 89db which seems to be not that difficult a load, anyway we will see....


like, WOW!!!

imo, 6C33C is not exactly the easiest tube to build an amplifier on, and you're building a push-pull 60 watt monster! lupet.
that thing is gonna eat 89db for breakfast. i heard a parallel 6c33c amp drive my AR3a's capably, sir. i just love that tube :inlove: :inlove: :inlove:

how many 6c33c tubes will you be using for your push-pull 60 watter, Sir Tony?

salamas!


k
User avatar
kabubi
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 5476
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:28 pm

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby tony » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:15 am

kabubi wrote:
i am building a push-pull 6C33 power amp good for about 60watts per channel into 2,4 or 8 ohms.....if you are up to it we can test the amp once completed, your Jamo has a sensitivity of 89db which seems to be not that difficult a load, anyway we will see....


like, WOW!!!

imo, 6C33C is not exactly the easiest tube to build an amplifier on, and you're building a push-pull 60 watt monster! lupet.
that thing is gonna eat 89db for breakfast. i heard a parallel 6c33c amp drive my AR3a's capably, sir. i just love that tube :inlove: :inlove: :inlove:

how many 6c33c tubes will you be using for your push-pull 60 watter, Sir Tony?

salamas!


k


with a mu of about 2 the 6C33 is a difficult tube to drive......and the driver circuit can not take off from the same B+ as the output stage......a higher B+ is required....to push the 6C33 grids, a driver stage capable of at least 250 volts or better peak to peak swing is a must....

but the good news is that the OPT does not require the kind of inductance that you would need for say an EL84, EL34 or 6L6GC, kt88 type tubes and so is very easy to make...
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Pasig City....

Re: Tony's lowdown on tube pp amp DIY....

Postby kabubi » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:42 am

so, how many 6c33c tubes will you need for your 60w amp?
User avatar
kabubi
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 5476
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:28 pm

Next

Return to DIY and Tubes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests