DIY Line Conditioner, rig your own

For the serious and not so serious in audio: DoItYourself and Tubes (SET, PP, Vintage).

Moderator: kabubi

DIY Line Conditioner, rig your own

Postby tony » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:38 am

A Line conditioner will have a schematic like this one, or a variation thereof:

Image

implemented, looks like this:
Image
Image
Image

If you are using an earthing system, then two 0.01/1kv or better disk ceramic capacitor can be wired in between the "hot" sides of the line and the junction earthed, this serves as a drain path for rfi noise. Since i do not use any earthing system in my house, I opted to forgo this in order to avoid nasty shocks that could otherwise occurr with those caps installed and connected to casing. The X2 caps are 1.5uf self healing types rated for 630 volts dc. At a radio frequency of say 400khz, it will have an impedance of 0.26ohms. The series chokes will have an inductance of about 10uH each, since there are 6 in series, it will have a total inductance of about 60uH, and so at about 400khz will have an equivalent impedance of about 150ohms, so ignoring phase for a moment, and treating them as pure resistances, we see that attenuation factor will be 150/0.26 or about 580. Of course this is not by all means accurate but gives you a pretty good idea of things to come.

Line conditioners have long been employed in appliances such as tv sets and smps, atx psu's and industrial equipment, before the audiophile community got wind of it. And in the European Union it is mandatory for appliances that employed SMPS in their power supplies.

Examples:
1. this came from a National Panasonic Color TV circa 1970:
Image

2 these came from an ATX pc psu:
Image
Image

3. these devices, are emi filters that came from industrial equipment:
Image
Image
Image

Here are parts you will need for constructing a line conditioner:
1. common mode chokes:
Image
Image

or you can use any one of these to wire one:
Image

2. MOV's metal oxide variable resistors:
Image
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Psig City.....02-738-5635

Postby arnoldc » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:25 am

Buti nag ka time ka to post this. Yung mga CMC walang specs... Ilang mH and A rating nun?

Tamang tama yan, dami naming sirang computer PSU dito sa office.

Salamat for sharing.

Gagawa ako ng magandang version (cosmetically), tapos i-file ko for patent :lol: and then bebenta ko ng $800 as audiophile product... Hati tayo sa kita, ok lang? :lol: :lol:
arnoldc
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 14115
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:22 pm
Location: Makati

Postby alexg » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:35 am

I am very much interested with this project.

Like Arnold, I have a lot of working and dead PC PSUs at my office.

Tony, can you post the specs for the CMC and the ferrite core inductor (how many turns and the wires that I need to use, Edrel also makes this ferrite core inductor in his shop at EPZA).

I just bought a bag of MOV.
User avatar
alexg
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1283
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:22 pm

Postby tony » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:07 am

arnoldc wrote:Buti nag ka time ka to post this. Yung mga CMC walang specs... Ilang mH and A rating nun?

Tamang tama yan, dami naming sirang computer PSU dito sa office.

Salamat for sharing.

Gagawa ako ng magandang version (cosmetically), tapos i-file ko for patent :lol: and then bebenta ko ng $800 as audiophile product... Hati tayo sa kita, ok lang? :lol: :lol:


It took me a week to compose this, anyway, i am giving this away for all to use and benefit from. :D

i never spent much for this except time.... and you can too..
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Psig City.....02-738-5635

Postby tony » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:10 am

alexg wrote:I am very much interested with this project.

Like Arnold, I have a lot of working and dead PC PSUs at my office.

Tony, can you post the specs for the CMC and the ferrite core inductor (how many turns and the wires that I need to use, Edrel also makes this ferrite core inductor in his shop at EPZA).

I just bought a bag of MOV.



As i used readily available parts, you too can wire your own torroid CMC's , i you want to use #16 wire then you can just fill the torroid up.
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Psig City.....02-738-5635

Postby conspicuous » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:17 am

tony, very noble of you to share this. i am not however an electrical engineer although i worked at motorola/on semi for a number of years in a past life. what exactly is the conditioning action? smoothing out of peaks (spikes) and valleys of the electrical source (e.g., meralco)? TIA :D
User avatar
conspicuous
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2254
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:33 pm
Location: San Pedro, Laguna

Postby tony » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:15 am

conspicuous wrote:tony, very noble of you to share this. i am not however an electrical engineer although i worked at motorola/on semi for a number of years in a past life. what exactly is the conditioning action? smoothing out of peaks (spikes) and valleys of the electrical source (e.g., meralco)? TIA :D


There are many "pollutants" riding the 60HZ meralco power line. Reflected waves from distant transmission lines produce harmonics, inductive loads produce transients, lightning strikes, even the cars's ignition system can couple signals to the power line. The pc's psu can produce EMI/RFI, so with microwave ovens.

now with line conditioning, all these are minimised by employing filters such as provided by chokes and capacitors, while have very low impedance at 60HZ, they present a very high impedance at RF.

MOV's are also very important part of line conditioning, since they absorb energy in the event that the voltage exceeds the nominal which is 220volts. that is why they are installed after the fuse.

Voltage regulators, like Yaden, STAC, or STAVOL also form part of line conditioning. In my case i opted for an isolation transformer to break gound loops and avoid nasty shocks.

Image

while working for AMD, we had a lot of 110volt equipment, and it was always an accident that these were inadvertantly plugged to 220, and because they were fitted with 120volt MOV's, they survived the ordeal. :D
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Psig City.....02-738-5635

Postby amandarae » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:29 am

Great post!

Since we are on this topic, here are few other DIY alternatives!


A Pure Line Conditioner, No MSG...este...MOV...

http://www.hagtech.com/pdf/conditioner.pdf


A Shunyata Hydra Clone.....

http://www.10audio.com/diy_power_conditioner.htm

regards
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby Jon Agner » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:44 am

Tony,

We appreciate your post. Kulang nalang pala sa ginawa kong line conditioner eh yung MOVs :) :D :D :D
User avatar
Jon Agner
Legend
Legend
 
Posts: 10479
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:48 pm
Location: Sa isang kabukiran na malapit sa tabing dagat

Postby tony » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:15 am

Jon Agner wrote:Tony,

We appreciate your post. Kulang nalang pala sa ginawa kong line conditioner eh yung MOVs :) :D :D :D


Yup and you can buy them cheap at Richland Electronics in Raon. :D
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Psig City.....02-738-5635

Postby brady » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:43 pm

The much more expensive PS Audio Ultimate Outlet is just a common-mode toroid, and capacitors across.
brady
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:06 pm

Postby edrel sison » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:30 pm

i can make this type of CMC. i think pwede ito tony. if i use AWG18 i can make around 2X20mH.
Image
core: toroidal ferrite, Ferroxcube TX36/23/15-3E6, AL value=13,400
edrel sison
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:37 pm

Postby tony » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:29 am

brady wrote:The much more expensive PS Audio Ultimate Outlet is just a common-mode toroid, and capacitors across.



yup, i studied the brochure, and i found nothing in there to indicate otherwise.

so called "power regenerator" is just another variation of line conditioner, that is how i see it. :wink: :D :(
User avatar
tony
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 7:18 am
Location: Psig City.....02-738-5635

Postby amandarae » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:43 am

tony wrote:
brady wrote:The much more expensive PS Audio Ultimate Outlet is just a common-mode toroid, and capacitors across.



yup, i studied the brochure, and i found nothing in there to indicate otherwise.

so called "power regenerator" is just another variation of line conditioner, that is how i see it. :wink: :D :(


Hmmm....pardon me, but I think your last statement is somewhat vague.

Variation is the "word" here.

The "power generator" is different in a sense that it converts incoming AC to DC, rectify and smooths it for ripple, regulate it, feeds it to an oscillator to re-create the AC, then amplify the AC from the output to generate the clean and re-generated AC at a set amplitude. In the outcome, you can control the voltage, power factor, and wave type where it can be a pure sine wave or a combination of it plus its harmonics applied at an specific phase angle set at the oscillator board before amplification.

How can that be the same variation as a line conditioner made up of chokes, LC networks and MOV's? In essence, they both do conditioning but that is where the similarity ends or variation as you put it.

Maybe you are referring to the "Ultimate Outlet" where it is made up of a big torroid choke but not the "power regenerator". There is a very big difference in the application between the latter and the former.
Last edited by amandarae on Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby bumblebee1 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:05 am

Regarding the regenerator, is the output current limited?
bumblebee1
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:58 pm

Postby amandarae » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:42 am

bumblebee1 wrote:Regarding the regenerator, is the output current limited?


Current limited compared to the line, no!

For a regenerator up to the rated power there is more instantaneous current available than the line.

Paul McGowan, the owner of PS AUDIO explained this as follows:


"A little perflexing but if you examine the construction of the power regenerators, i.e. PS Audio, you can tell that there is exactly the same amount of current available through the line, plus several joules of stored energy in the Power Plant.
It is this stored energy, plus the higher voltage rails of the Power Plant (higher than the line voltage) that allows the Power Plant to regulate the line voltage despite drops, and provide actually MORE energy that is available.

There is a limit, but only the amount we set. For instance a P600 is limited to 720 watts
"

cheers
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby bumblebee1 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:12 am

What about the 720 watts of P600? That's just 3A assuming 220V. Did I get it right?
bumblebee1
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:58 pm

Postby amandarae » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:52 pm

bumblebee1 wrote:What about the 720 watts of P600? That's just 3A assuming 220V. Did I get it right?


Very close. If it is reactive power you are talking about, then it is right. The limit is not in the current, but the capacity in terms of power.

Go to PSAudio's website, there's tons of info there.

regards,

Abe
User avatar
amandarae
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Diamond Bar, CA

Postby yucca » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:26 pm

alexg wrote:I just bought a bag of MOV.

Dumating na ba bro?


Edrel Sison - any indication of the price for the CMC's?
yucca
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: small garden in sta.rosa

Postby edrel sison » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:35 pm

yucca wrote:
alexg wrote:I just bought a bag of MOV.

Dumating na ba bro?


Edrel Sison - any indication of the price for the CMC's?


planning to play around? :D :D sent you pm
edrel sison
Citizen
Citizen
 
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:37 pm

Next

Return to DIY and Tubes

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests